can you help me out with this?

[booyhoo]

i have been lurking around feminism/women's rights for the past few days and have decided to make a change in my life.

although my OH says all the right things when we discuss housework/ division of chores/ childcare issues it doesn't last and i inevitably end up doing the lion's share of it all, he will when asked. now we have an unusual sort of set up in that he is forces and away 90% of the time so naturally everything falls to me. this, i have no problem with. my problem is that when he is here it is still me that does it all. we have talked about it before and OH says that no1, he wants me to stop nagging about him doing things and no2 because he isn't here he doesn't know what needs done and when. which leaves me with the issue of telling him what needs done without him seeing it as nagging. but i also think that his reasons are a bit of a cop out. e.g; he knows that i put a wash on every night, he knows i make the bed every morning, he knows that the washing comes in each night, gets folded and put away, and he knows that dinner needs cooked each evening so really i shouldn't need to be reminding him about this stuff.

so, to my point, following on from me printing off the inspirational quotes from the other thread and putting them up in my house i would like to put up an inspirational quote/phrase for him that would make him feel like he should be doing all thses things. something that will dig at his male pride. not something that slags him of for not doing it but something that will make him feel proud to do it. as in "a real man does x,y and z" or " you are an adult when you can do x, y and z for yourself"

does anybody have anything i could use or could you help me with putting something together? i would also like it to be inspirational for my dcs when they are older.

Oh and was it on this thread that someone mentioned that her DP always says how much more he does than other men?

To which the response is

a) other men are shit and you are so much better, so of course you do more than them

and

b) you don't live with other men, you live with me and you should be comparing the amount of housework you do with me, not with other men.

Sorry I could go on for hours about housework.

When DH accused me of nagging, I very calmly explained that

(a) I wasn't nagging, I was simply reminding him to do jobs that he had previously agreed to do but hadn't done yet

(b) he was upsetting me because he was giving me no choice but to either do it myself, accept that they weren't going to get done, or to mention it and be accused of nagging, which I found personally offensive

(c) if he didn't like the jobs he'd been allocated or they were taking longer than expected, we could re-negotiate the division of labour at any time but for him just to ignore the fact that these things needed to be done was not an option.

It did the trick, we still have discussions over who will do what, but the accusations of nagging haven't recurred.

happy, that sounds like a plan. i thinl i will have to steal your script for when OH comes home

good luck, let us know how it goes!

sounds like a good idea happysmiley.
booyhoo - have you read the politics of housework? Published in the 1970s, but nothing has changed.

A couple of highlights from the "what he says -v- what he means" section:

"We have different standards, and why should I have to work to your standards? That's unfair." MEANING: If I begin to get bugged by the dirt and crap I will say, "This place sure is a sty" or "How can anyone live like this?" and wait for your reaction. I know that all women have a sore called "Guilt over a messy house" or "Household work is ultimately my responsibility." I know that men have caused that sore-if anyone visits and the place is a sty--they're not going to leave and say, "He sure is a lousy housekeeper." You'll take the rap in any case. I can outwait you. ALSO MEANING: I can provoke innumerable scenes over the housework issue. Eventually doing all the housework yourself will be less painful to you than trying to get me to do half. Or I'll suggest we get a maid. She will do my share of the work. You will do yours. It's women's work.

"I've got nothing against sharing the housework, but you can' t make me do it on your schedule." MEANING: Passive resistance. I'll do it when I damned well please, if at all. If my job is doing dishes, it's easier to do them once a week. If taking out laundry, once a month. If washing the floors, once a year. If you don't like it, do it yourself oftener, and then I wont do it at all.

elephants i have actually printed some of 'the politics of housework' out in the past. it is sitting in the kitchen. i totally relate to it all. i had contemplated showing it to OH but i didn't want to 'overkill' the whole do your share thing. do you think he would see it like taht or would it improve things for him to read it?

I don't know, he's your DH - how do you think he will react?

i'm not sure, i can imagine him now rolling his eyes, reading it and not feeling an different. he would probably agree with the male POV in it.

still, it wouldn't do any harm to let him read it.

Personally, I think that if he's a decent guy it'll be enough for you just to tell him it upsets you. If he's likely to do the eye rolly thing if you show him the politics of housework, pesonally I wouldn't bother. But like E&M says, you know him, and only you can judge.

Maybe write him a letter along the lines of the following:

• there is a certain minimum amount of housework that needs doing, including a,b,c & d

• when you are away I do all of abc&d, plus looking after the DC 24 hours a day

• when you are back I expect to get a break from at least part of this workload. You are another adult in the house and the father of the DC.

• when you refuse to do any of these jobs, or procrastinate until you've run out of time to do them, not only is my usual workload increased (as you are here to feed and clean up after as well as the DC), but I feel as if you think my role in life is to do abc&d, take care of the DC without a break and be your domestic skivvy

• this means that your leave, which should be a lovely happy relaxed time for both of us, puts me in the position of a glorified housekeeper while you kick back and do nothing. Understandably this makes me annoyed - I don't get to spend time with you OR the kids, I have more work to do than ever, and when I remind you that you should be taking on your tasks, you call me a "nag".

• what do you think we should do to resolve this issue, which makes family time together impossible and leave me upset, overworked and resentful?

elephants that is a great letter, very direct and to the point. i think i will write it out and keep it incase the caht when he gets back proves unsuccessful.

i have written on the white board on the fridge the list that i do everyday, i will show it to him when he gets back and tell him that these are the jobs that need to be done daily and when he is here i would like him to work his way down it doing whatever it is that hasn't already been done.

this is the list:

1. make beds
2. do dishes
3. hang wash
4. clean one of the rooms (although i only do these during the week so it wouldn't need done when he is home at the weekends)
5. dinner
6. dishes
7. sweep kitchen and empty bins
8. bath + bedtime for dcs
9. take wash in, tumble, fold + put away

10. put dirty wash in machine + set.

of course there isn't always a wash to go on or hang out/fold/put away and we dont bath the dcs every night, sometimes we have takeaway at weekends so there can be days when we only have to make the beds and wash the breakfast dishes. the list does look like a lot but it is what i do and it really isn't alot, especially if there were 2 of us doing it. i am hoping the fact that it is there onthe fridge and has been pointed out to him will be enough for him to take the initiative and do some of it.

HerBeatitude it was my DH and I've memorised both your quotes to say to him the next time I hear that!
I do sometimes remind myself though of the other side of the coin, which is a man like the one someone is complaining about in active covos who expects a really really tidy house. I wouldn't be much up for that at all.

Glad to have been of help Iggis, good luck with it!

hope the chat does work, booyhoo

thank you both, i hope so too, otherwise...who knows what i will have to resort to