Headteacher bans skirts as if too short they 'put girls at risk'

[Northernlurker]

here

I was pretty apalled by this - banning skirts because they give out 'signals' and the girls are putting themselves at risk by wearing them????
Thankfully my daughter doesn't attend that school but I have e-mailed the school address protesting at these comments. What does anybody else think?

It seems odd that the thrust of the posts have been to say

1. Yes to having the girls wear trousers or longer skirts

1. No to the reason given ie this will prevent them from being at risk of molestation

And then people seem to keep insisting that the people who say 2. are also arguing that girls must be allowed to wear miniskirts to school. A lot of deliberate misunderstanding seems to be going on here.

yay millyr!!!!

ISNT: you seem to be suggesting that this uniform change was in response to a known problem of sexual harassment and that the boys got away with it while the girls had to modify their attire.

Short skirts are inappropriate in schools for reasons (among others) of being sexually attractive attire regardless of whether there has been a related problem of sexual harassment or not.

The Head, however, may have made a completely hamfisted attempt at making this point.

" But like you say, sexual harassment goes on outside it - in the corridors and playground. What is your school doing to eliminate it?"

Can you perhaps say what sort of sexual harassment you have in mind?

"So the girls get it in the neck even when they are the victims, not the perpetrators."

I don't think the head has said 'There is a problem with sexual harassment at my school, so I shall ban short skirts as a way of dealing with it'. That would seem to be how you're reading it though?

bibbitybobbityhat - his statement has been copied into the post By littleducks Mon 14-Jun-10 20:03:06.

My concern about his statement (let alone anything he may have said on the radio) is that it does equate the length for the skirt with whether or not the girl is safe becasue of the "the signals [they] are giving out".

There is no mention in that statement about anything the school might be doing to address the fact that boys might be misreading "messages" - especially, when to quote him "the children....are clearly wholly unaware of the signals they are giving out" - then maybe they are not giving out the messages that people are ascribing to them???

"Are you telling me that girls never get groped, cat-called or called slags or whores at your school NG"

No, I didn't say that at all. If reported (because it doesn't go on in my classroom), that sort of thing would certainly be dealt with. For my own part, I have dealt with a bullying incident where a girl was being labelled a slag, however, it was by another group of girls.

"that the only issue that needs addressing is the length of girl's skirts?"

No, but the length of girls skirts is an issue that needs addressing. I address it every day when I do a uniform inspection on my group as I let them out of the classroom.

The upshot for me is that I would act strongly to stop my daughter making her school uniform skirt very short. My reasons would be complicated - certainly not involving blaming her for any unwanted advances towards her, but, yes, to do with protecting her.

A headteacher is in loco parentis in school.

I think people are over-disecting his choice of phrase. He has every right to adapt the school uniform, if it is being widely mis-used.

About the age thing mentioned; what age do we say its okay to wear certain things or act a certain way? Something that stands out to me as a home educator is the choice to be in a situation.

We can choose to wear a short skirt or to flirt with people, but if a situation or attention from an individual makes me uncomfortable I can leave the situation.

In school there are times that neither boys or girls have that choice. I think we compel children to do a lot of things and that rather than age the deciding factor perhaps needs to be about how much power the 'child' has over the situation. If they don't have any choice about going to school then I think that there is an argument that they still need to be classed as a child and given additional protection from the environment they are compelled to be in.

Not that I'm saying that protection should focus on skirt length over other behaviours.

For heaven's sake.

Girls around here wear skirts that only barely cover their arses. Of course they are going to receive inappropriate attention when they are going about practically naked from the waist down. I applaud the headmaster for getting it sorted.

noblegiraffe you were the person who suggested that short skirts lead to sexual harrassment of girls in schools and I was expressing my view that if there is a problem of that type in a school, lengthening the skirts of the girls by a couple of inches is not going to stop it.

"Like I said, short skirts attract sexual attention. It is hard to argue that this is not a motive for at least some of the girls to wear them like that....wanting Jake in 12A to find them hot. How do you tackle the attitudes of boys who see a short skirt as an invitation to sexual attention when it is an invitation to sexual attention, just not from them? "

I would suggest that the reason most girls wear short skirts is because it is the fashion, and what their friends are doing.
(That is the reason I rolled up my skirt at school, it didn't cross my mind that anyone would think I was doing it to "attract sexual attention" from boys or otherwise).

Why it is the fashion for teengaed girls to wear is a different question, and one about our society and role models and gender roles and all sorts of things.

The other thing is that when I see a group of schoolgirls in short skirts, or even very young women (sixth formers and teens) in very short skirts, I do not think for a second that they are wearing them to attract "sexual attention". I think "oh look some girls in the traditional garb of girls - short skirts". Anyone looking at those girls and making assumptions based on their sexual availability/level of sexual awareness etc is making a huge mistake. And one I don't understand TBH. Surely everyone knows that a 14yo in a short skirt is wearing it as that's what you do when you're a 14yo girl. It doens't mean anything. Skirt length on teenage girls and young women doesn't mean anything. How can anyone imagine it does?

To qualify that

When I see girls in short skirts, i might think "blimey those skirts are short, way too short, mind you mine was short" etc etc

What I don't think is "those girls are wearing very short skirts. They are obviously all sexually mature / sexually active and looking to attract attention from men. In fact they are a bunch of sluts".

I mean, you'd have to be a bit twisted to think that, wouldn't you?

I wonder why people are so keen to apply the motivations and experience of mature sexually experienced women, to barely pubescant girls?

It's all very odd.

ISNT: I don't think I suggested that short skirts lead to sexual harassment.

I said that wearing a short skirt attracts sexual attention. Would you disagree with this?

I also said that it would be hard to argue that the motive for at least some girls to wear them would be for this reason.

"I do not think for a second that they are wearing them to attract "sexual attention"."

Do you think that nothing teenage girls do is to attract sexual attention? That is certainly not my experience.

I only wore a short skirt to attract the opposite sex when I was young. Cant really see why else you would wear one. As I became sexually active my skirts got shorter!!

I dont think that a short skirt invites attack or assault, but it does without doubt invite admiring looks etc from men. The more flesh that is shown the more people will look.

Its the same for men. If I pass a well built male body in overalls I wouldnt look twice. If I saw a good male body without a top on or a tight TShirt, I would - and it would be an admiring glance.

I think it is inappropriate to have very short skirts for school. Fine for a night out - but then that is when a lot of people wear them on a night out to attract a mate.

I've not read all the replies to this. One thing I'd like to say is that girls often start wearing revealing clothing when they are starting to explore their sexuality. Whether it's having sex or just exploring the rush it gives oneself to dress sexy. Often times they're not completely aware that what they're doing is sending signals and even feeling sexual. Be it hormonal or what girls dress differently at different times.
It is however men's responsibility to 'keep a lid on it' and let such things pass when the girls are under age.
Like wise it's women's responsibility not to make remarks/react when they see a particularly fit under age shirtless boy wander by with his undies hanging out because his trousers are around his knees.

I do think that girls should be helped to make better decisions about their clothes.

The headmaster I think just chose a poor turn of phrase. Not meaning to be sexist.

The headmaster replied yesterday evening to the e-mail I sent.
Excerpts from the reply say: 'We are worrying that 11 and 12 year olds girls are wearing their uniform in such a way that they are conveying a message that they are older than in fact they are, and thus, perhaps, making themselves vulnerable. We are also especially concerned about the 45 statemented children here and the significant number on school action plus. You may not agree.'
He also says 'In relation to your points about the sexualisation of young children I wholeheartedly agree with you. Adults must take the responsibility for that.'
and finally 'I am sorry if I have been misunderstood. I have 3 daughters and ferociously defend their equal right in society to dress as they wish without any connotations being assumed.'
I am quite happy to accept that it was not his intention to imply that sexual violence was invited and justified by a short skirt. I guess what is of concern still is that in my view he did imply that. I have written back asking how the school address sexual harassment in general amongst the pupil body.

What sort of sexual attention then do you think is not a problem for a 14yo girl? If she is wearing a short skirt which has led boys/men to (naturally) understand that she is seeking to attract sexual attention?

I would actually also disagree with "short skirt = sexual attention" entirely TBH. When combined with other things, and worn in a certain way, by a woman who is obviously looking to exude a certain air, then yes. On a teenaged girl, just walking down the high street, then TBH, no.

This idea that schoolgirl in a short skirt = looking to attract sexual attention is weird to me TBH. Sure some might be, but to think it of all of them? I think that a lot of people are pasting their experienced adult perceptions onto these children & teens.

Do people honestly believe that it is more likely that a young schoolgirl in a short skirt is wearing it in order to attract comments and wolfwhistles from passing middle aged men, and shouts and leers from groups of schoolboys? Or more likely that she is wearing it because it's the fashion at her school to roll your skirt up. And is actually pretty horrified / intimidated by the shouts and leers and wolfwhistles and so on.

I agree with chuck as well that the fact that "schoolgirl" has been a porn/fetish/code for "tart" standby for years has not helped matters.

Blimey that was a quick and good response NL.

Shame it'll never be in the press.

I am trying to think about what I am trying to get across in my precious posts.

Schoolgirls have rolled up their skirts since time immemorial. It is what schoolgirls do.

Some of them will do it for fashion
Some of them will do it as its what their friends do
Some will do it as they have nice legs
Some will do it as they want to look "sexy" but not really understand what that means
Some will do it as they want to look "sexy" and do understand what it means
Some will do it to piss their parents off
Some will do it to piss the school off

and so on

It is a mistake to ascribe the same motivations to all schoolgirls who wear short skirts. And it is a mistake to infer a level of sexual maturity/experience/"knowingness" from a skirt.