BBC Article "Boys prefer cars from early on"

[skiari]

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/8624999.stm

Researchers put a range of toys near children aged 9 to 36 months. They found the children were more likely to choose gender-typed toys and colours. "Boys went straight for the ball and the black car, and girls went to the teddy bear and the doll."

The researcher thinks this demonstrates "an intrinsic bias in children to show interest in particular kinds of toys" but admits that "Children of this age are already subject to a great deal of socialisation".

I wonder why they are not considering that this socialisation could completely explain the results?

If children are already given, or encouraged to play with, gender-specific toys at home, at nursery, at toddler groups and at friends' homes, then surely this would explain the results of the survey? Especially if the parents or carers think that children are "intrinsically" more likely to prefer gender-specific toys and so tend to give them those.

What do you think?

it's only a generalisation anyway dd1 was obsessed with cars trains and dinosaurs from 18months

But they have dismissed that idea out of hand phdlife (well according to teh article anyway) when as far as I can see you can't conclude that from the study at all.

They observed differences - yes.

Why are there differences? They seem to be making assumptions.

Imsonottelling - I suppose the reason researchers keep on looking into this stuff is the same reason they keep looking into just about anything in science...to try and discover something new. This study has already debunked what I was taught at uni 15 years ago; no doubt at some point in the future people will far better understand the complexities of not only how the hardwiring (and 'softwiring' - i.e. what happens to our brain as we grow from birth) of our brains influence this stuff, but also how genetic and 'epigenetic' [polishes academic badge ] factors play a role. So there's always something new to discover.

Well, I have a ds and a dd so feel I am an expert.

You know what? Dd likes drawing and making at the moment. Ds likes books, babies/dolls and bears. They both like balls. They both spent ages picking up (yes, I had to pretend not to shudder) and examining snails and slugs in the garden today. And getting far too muddy making 'soup'.

I wonder how much of the gender-divide is down to interpretation?

eg I saw on a thread once, how their ds loved the hoover (so does mine) - the reasoning 'oh, it's because it's a machine, boys love machines' .

Well, I have a ds and a dd so feel I am an expert.

You know what? Dd likes drawing and making at the moment. Ds likes books, babies/dolls and bears. They both like balls. They both spent ages picking up (yes, I had to pretend not to shudder) and examining snails and slugs in the garden today. And getting far too muddy making 'soup'.

I wonder how much of the gender-divide is down to interpretation?

eg I saw on a thread once, how their ds loved the hoover (so does mine) - the reasoning 'oh, it's because it's a machine, boys love machines' .

Adair - re interpretation: yes, my DS hated the hoover until recently. I'd say that was purely down to his genes and the fact that hoovering is women's work. Others might say it's just because he hated loud machine noises. I spit on any interpretation that doesn't keep a woman in her place .

My too love their gender-specific toys but play with them in non-stereotypical ways.
Eg ds1 has his family of motorbikes - the big one is the dad, the little one is the baby etc - and his most adorable moment ever was when I overheard him saying to a small green piece of Lego, 'Don't worry little brick, I'll find your daddy!' 'There you are!'

'two' not 'too', sorry

That's so cute! Was watching ds put baby doll in the shopping trolley, cover her with a blanket and say 'ssssshhh' and thought 'gender-differences with toys?' nope, it's all bollocks.

Agree with SpeedyG.

There is something hardwired into ds from birth to like trucks, trains etc that cannot be entirely explained by environmental factors.

In fact, ds grew up surrounded by dd's babies, buggies and girly toys. Dd feminises him in the way she expects him to play with her - which he does because he looks up to her. When ds had to choose a 'baby' to put into the buggy, he chose his racing car.

Ds has got specialist interests, in that he will focus on something he likes (different makes of cars) and notice the littlest thing. Dd is more generalist in her interests.

Nope. All bollocks, sorry. YOUR ds may do that, my ds DOES play with lots of dd's toys (be it baby dolls or lego or they are both quite into puzzles).

All our children are different individuals. So why does it matter if 'lots of boys' do x and 'lots of do y' if some girls do x and some boys do y anyway.

Really. It's just limiting, and MUST affect how you treat them if you believe that boys and girls are wired differently.

Adair, it is possible to believe in general differences and still respect individuality.

As it is to make a point without resorting to expletives.

Oh gosh, blueshoes I am not getting into this with you . You can believe girls and boys are wired differently and like different toys because their brains say so. That will depress me as I can't see how you can then not limit/influence their choices for the future but they are your kids. I will continue to offer my kids a choice and not attribute their decisions to gender. It will continue to depress me when others say 'oh he's such a boy' for climbing. And conveniently ignoring when dd climbs.

As for swearing - it is allowed on MN. I wanted to swear on this point, so I did.

Wave things in front of kids from birth and see what takes there interest more it's the only way to know for sure.

I don't know the sex of mine yet, I've bought things in many colours, if people have a problem with a girl in blue thats there problem, I'll buy everything based on price, if the pink toy phone is cheaper the boy will get that.

I think people are crazy, Pink was for boys and yellow for girls years ago, it means nothing, it's all conditioning from an early age, we all know that, we have all seen it in shops and I'm sure many parents do it without even realising it.

I couldn't stand baby dolls when I was a kid, they freaked me out and I still hate them to this day, they are just wrong especially the ones that cry and pee, mum says the first toys where plushes and pencils and paper, I remember going from Match box cars - Star Wars - My Little Pony -HeMan, SheRa and Golden Girls -Sylvania Families and finally TMNT and Bucky O-Hare during that time I played video games as well from the Orric to PS1.

I'd love to know what they think of me, they probably think I swing both ways and play football while wearing lipstick and high heels.

Until I had ds1 I was convinced these stereotypes were rubbish & if he had a mixture of 'girls' & 'boys' toys he would play with whatever he wanted. All he's ever wanted are boys toys though. He wanted a pushchair for a while but that was only because dh used to push him in his. I've now got a second ds (4 months old) & am intrigued to see if he is the same. Of course he'll have a big brother to copy which will make it more of a leap for him to like dolls & stuff. The difference between boys & girls in ds1s class at school is blindingly obvious too. Whilst there are a few exceptions generally the girls are much happier to sit & write, draw etc whereas the boys want to run round & play football. It's something that fascinates me I have to admit.

Adair, I don't remember you from Adam. But you clearly seem to hold grudges. Feeling rather sorry for you.

It is just opinions, not destiny, for your or my dcs. Let it go ...

I thought that ALL small children regardless of gender were obsessed with tractors/diggers/trains/insert machine of choice. . .

More seriously, I agree very much with whoever pointed out that whether or not there is an innate difference between a 'typical' girl or boy (which I doubt - if it exists - is substantial relative to the differences between individual children), it certainly doesn't justify the fact that our daughters are likely to earn substantially less than our sons over the course of their lives.

Until I had dd and ds1 I was convinced that I would treat any child with complete gender neutrality.
This lasted until the first day I put dd in a dress, when she was about 3 weeks old, and I suddenly found the way I thought about her shifting.
I try to give them gender-neutral toys as far as is possible within the confines of also giving them what they actually want (!) but above all I try to have similar expectations of them and, for instance, praise similar qualities, offer them similar things. And it is bloody difficult. I am always catching myself telling dd she looks pretty and not being similarly bothered about how ds looks, for instance.

DS (3.9) takes far better care of DD's (2.5) baby dolls than she does... DD could happily spend all day playing with the cars and the train sets, and had an absolute meltdown recently about party bags when DS's had a toy car and hers had a blue duck.

When I was sorting out various handed down presents and found a fairy dress for DD to try on it was very lucky I also had a bigger fairy dress for DS, who put his on and kept it on and clearly enjoyed it, while DD's stayed on her for about 30 seconds.

I do feel a little odd when out in public with either of them in the 'wrong' clothes, though I also feel that I shouldn't, and try to ignore this - but I feel far more odd when it is DS, with a hair band or jewellery or whatever than I do with DD when she is insisting on wearing a Thomas tshirt and hat!

But no survey is going to tell me anything about my children; it is going to tell me what, when looked at in significant numbers, children generally do, and I'm quite happy to believe that boys, statistically, are more likely to gravitate to cars than girls; I don't see that this ought to change anything in my house though. What is the message from this research supposed to be?

I think there are innate differences but those differences are blasted way, WAY out of proportion by the marketing industry and by culture in general. Boys will happily play with prams (not because its got wheels ) but because they know that people push babies in them.
I have 4 younger brothers who I practically raised and after having those brothers I expected a bit of calm with a girl. But DD is all over the place, needs lots of space to run around, goes straight for the sticks at a park etc. So I do think a LOT of it is socialisation.
I'm annoyed she's going through a pink phase right now but I counteract it as much as possible. She knows my fave colour is yellow and gives me yellow things so she understands that when girls become women they're unlikely to love pink.

It's fecking stupid. They have no 'proof' whatsoever. That is the stupidest 'study' i've ever seen

Gender stereotypes are only attributed by us/society and not by genitals/brain cells etc.

Think about it, everything about humans is on a spectrum, even genitals are not as polar different as some might think.

If there was a big, polarised difference between men and women, genetically, it would have been found, it would be obvious, it would be clear cut. There isn't. The 'lines' that distinguish boys from girls are culture imposed and not real or distinct. There are women with XY and people with XXY DNA, some never even know it.

I played with cars as a child, so what? Where is there anything useful coming out of trying to divide people into dichotomised stereotypes? [rant]

I've had some daft conversations with 3yo ds1 over the last few days.
DS1. Please will you play fairy snap with me?
Me. OK! I didn't know you liked fairies.
DS1. Don't be silly mummy, I don't like fairies, I'm a boy.
Me. You know ds1, some boys like fairies and some girls don't. I actually don't like fairies as a matter of fact.
DS1. Really Mummy? . Oh! That's really amazing!

Maybe there is a slight difference. girls 'generally' more interested in people.

boys 'generally' more interested in how things work.

But, I don't for one minute, believe that boys are more outdoorsy, more interested in insects, better climbers, more physical etc. etc.

I have one of each. DD was the ultimate tomboy until she began school. Now, she is desperate to be like the other girls.

I think the distinction made when people say girls are generally more interested in people and boys are less so is a massive overgeneralisation of the fact that boys are more likely to be autistic than girls. Therefore boys are more likely to be disinterested in people. OTT. Neurotypical boys and girls, aren't so dissimilar to be able to make statements like that.

Well I find it very disturbing the way girls play with dolls, as I said I hated dolls as a child and still do, if my kid wants a doll I will not let them have one.

I'm not talking about things like Barbie and other adult looking dolls I never had a problem with them but it's the baby dolls, as a kid they freaked me out now I just think they are wrong.

We just had Primark take padded bikini bras off the market for sexualising young girls, but it still perfectly acceptable and expected that parents will buy a little girl a screaming, pooping, peeing baby doll they stick in a pram and feed and change the nappy of,

how is that anything other then training from an early age for whats expected of them when they come of age?.