Women on film

[Molesworth]

I'm interested in the ways women are represented in mainstream cinema. Recently I was reading about the Bechdel Test* and how shockingly few mainstream films pass. I'd love to have some recommendations for films which represent women in non-stereotypical ways. I can nominate Andrea Arnold's Fish Tank which I found quite moving/harrowing in the way it represents the experience of its protagonist, a white, working class young woman. It inspired me to watch Arnold's earlier feature, Red Road which I'm afraid I found extremely disappointing from a feminist POV (for reasons I can't detail without giving away the plot). Anyway, any recommendations for films which in some way 'tell the truth' about being a woman and/or represent women in non-stereotypical ways?

• The Bechdel Test:

1. It has to have at least two women in it
2. Who talk to each other
3. About something besides a man

In Juno they prob do talk about the man Jennifer Garner's character is married to, but I think they must also be talking about Juno's baby, adoption and parenthood?

And it TV series count, Battlestar Galactica is good: woman president, best pilot is a woman, many other strong female leads (as many as male leads, I think).

if, not it

Ta for all the suggestions

I'm not sure about female action heroes - male fantasy fodder or empowering role models? Or both

I did like the twist on the femme fatale in Jacques Audiard's Read My Lips.

What about Jane Campion's films? I've only seen The Piano

Angel at my Table is by Jane Campion. Def more than one woman and I don't remember them talking about men (ahem, should come clean at this points: have TERRIBLE memory)

Whale Rider is quite good.

Agree re women directors - was shocked that Lost in Translation, by Sofia Coppolla open with lingering shots of Scarlett Johannsons almost naked bum.

Bend It Like Beckham?

Terms Of Endearment?

Muriel's Wedding?

In Her Shoes?

Julie & Julia - the characters never speak to one another. nearly like 2 separate films intermingled.

Corina, Corina - although one of the "women" is a child

Beaches

Primary Colours

Parenthood

Kickass, yes the OP was too woolly really. I'm interested in what others think about any aspect of women on film really.

A couple of films that probably wouldn't pass the Bechdel Test:

Audiard's Read My Lips for its interesting twist on the femme fatale (played by Emmanuelle Devos)

The White Ribbon for its harrowing portrayal of oppression

It's not a particularly 'feminist' film in purport or message, but Zombieland did pass the Bechdel test for me - two female characters in it talked about something other than a man (their plans together, in fact).
"Bright Star" (Jane Campion's latest) may not pass the test, now I think of it - though I'm not certain, but it's a very feminist film to my mind. Fanny Brown was eviscerated by everyone when her and Keats' letters were published (and not just the Victorians, people were mean about her well into the twentieth century) and Campion tells the story about HER, not about Keats.... oh it's beautiful.

Anyone seen:

Two Women (La Ciociara,)1960 Italian film directed by Vittorio De Sica. The story of a woman trying to protect her teenaged daughter from the horrors of war. Stars Sophia Loren, Jean-Paul Belmondo, Eleonora Brown. (Black & white)

Waiting Women (1952)
Three women discuss their marriages over coffee as they wait at a remote holiday cottage for the arrival of their husbands. Ingmar Bergman's comedy drama, with Anita Bjork, Eva Dahlbeck and Maj-Britt Nilsson
Director Ingmar Bergman
Cast
Rakel Anita Bjork (IMDB)
Karin Eva Dahlbeck (IMDB)
Marta Maj-Britt Nilsson (IMDB)
(Black & White)

Rabbit Proof Fence (2002)
Western Australia, 1931. Government policy includes taking half-caste children from their Aboriginal mothers and sending them a thousand miles away to what amounts to indentured servitude, "to save them from themselves."

Two women (1999)
(Do zan) - Iranian motion picture written and directed by Tahmineh Milani.
Two Women charts the lives of two promising architecture students over the course of the first turbulent years of the Islamic Republic, creating a portrait of traditions that conspire to trap women and stop them from realizing their full potential.

The Legend of Walks Far Woman(1982)
The story of two years in the life of Walks Far, a woman of the Blackfoot tribe who is forced by circumstance to join a Sioux tribe, following her gradual acceptance into the tribe, her first encounters with European ways, her marriage, the battle of the Little Big Horn in 1876 and its bloody aftermath.

Oh, and what about Fried Green Tomatoes at the Whistle Stop Cafe? I used to love that film. May give it another viewing.

Have you seen any Allison Anders films? She did 'Gas, Food, Lodging' and 'Grace of My Heart' amongst others, I'm pretty sure most of her films fit your criteria. The first mainstream film that jumped to mind was 'The Descent' the British 'pot-holing horror'! I am going to go off and have a think. I can't believe there aren't more. I have to admit the traditional 'for women' films like 'Beaches' and 'Fried Green Tomatoes', leave me a bit cold.

Ooh, what about 'The Group' the 60s film from the Mary Mcarthy book, that is a fab film.

Gas, Food lodging is a great film

Ah, good old the Bechdel Test. You're right that some films pass it that aren't particularly feminist (astoundingly, Sin City passes it, due to the part where the hookers-with-a-heart-of-gold plot to take back the city from the evil cop dude!). As I understand it, what the Bechdel test is doing is measuring the agency of the women in question - are they there only to serve the men in the plot or do they have their own plot, their own reasons for doing stuff. It is a feminist analysis but not a complete one - though I always like to bear it in mind as it does yield some interesting results. For instance, Transformers is not anyone's idea of a feminist film, and indeed it does not pass the Bechdel test, but the reason it doesn't is because the two female characters (who in their own way are coded as 'strong' - one is good at fixing cars, and one is very clever) never actually meet & talk. They are there as separate tokens in two separate strands of plot.

DP reckons The Descent more than passes the Bechdel test - all the main characters in the film are female. Haven't seen it myself but while it may well not talk about female concerns (I realise you weren't asking about that exactly), just the fact that the film unapologetically and straightforwardly has an almost entirely female cast is pretty good, seems to me. Having said that, it is a horror film so you could argue that we're watching women being picked off one by one... So, female agency and well-rounded female characters, but you may still not be madly keen?!

yes, I've seen Rabbit Proof Fence! An Angel at My Table is v. good Campion film, about the NZ writer Janet Frame. Also her Portrait of a Lady is v. good I think.

Recent mainstream films with more interesting women, that I can think of, are:

Up in the Air

Juno

Rachel's Getting Married

Doubt - with Meryl Streep and Amy Adams and nuns

Oh and Kirsten Scott Thomas in that french film - was it called I've Loved You too Long or something like that??

I liked that film about Coco Chanel too.

They are there but they v. rarely are allowed to 'carry' the film.

Can anyone remember that Mike Leigh film about the mixed race girl who was adopted and then finds her mother who is white? I really like that film and I think it would pass this test...

Is it Secrets and Lies?

I loved Bright Star too blackcurrants, it is so wonderful and I just read and read about Fanny Brown afterwards, I can't believe she kept that secret almost all her life.

Love the Bechdel test, it is excellent IME for making cynics who give the "but things are equal now" line see how wrong that is.

I like "Women on the Verge of a Nervous Breakdown" as it passes the test and it really is all about the women. Black mark against Almodovar for signing the petition defending the child rapist Polanski, but I still like this film for the way it explores women's anxieties about different stages of their lives - marriage, pregnancy, relationship breakdown, job trouble etc. So often (i.e. nearly always) films are about male characters' anxieties and character development, while the women are just supposed to be totally unfazed.

Not sure if it passes the test (another awful memory here, and there's understandably a lot of talking about Howl) but I also like Howl's Moving Castle, because Sophie is never changed back from being an old woman to being a pretty girl. She and the witch of the waste and Madame Suliman are all powerful figures, and all talk to each other, and are all (in appearance at least) oldish women.

The Accused had strong female characters in it. But, because of the subject matter, I don't think it passes the test.

And what about my childhood favourite - Freaky Friday!

It's odd, but I can think of plenty of books that pass the test, but not many films.

re: red road, I totally agree, it was such a disappointment in terms of reinforcing negative stereotypes of women- I'm glad hardly anyone saw it.

Ones I can think of:

beaches
shirley valentine?
educating rita
the devil wears prada
scream?
mermaids
heathers
legally blonde?
annie? -or is that really streching it a bit?
in her shoes
hannah and ger sisters
the magdalene sisters
drop dead gorgeous
monster
romy and michelle's high school reunion
reality bites

Ok so it's trashy but i love Blue Crush.

Surfer girl, bring up little sister, with two surfer girl friends, preping for the competition of her life... meets boy, gets distracted, realises surfing more important than boy, does good

it's based on the story of the first woman to be on the cover of surfer magazine. and it has real life women surfers in it as well as actresses.

It's amazing just how many films get eliminated at each stage of the test:

• More than one woman

Truly scary how many films don't have this, even when the cast is quite large.

• Who talk to each other

Again as someone mentioned above, common to see two female characters, then you realise that they never appear in the same scene (because why would they need to? Surely a woman is a woman so why have more than one? )

-Not about men
And suddenly almost all the rest are knocked out - pretty much all romcoms for example including P&P, He's Just Not That Into You etc etc etc.

Does Dirty Dancing count? They talk about abortion don't they? Ooh, Clueless! And Emma I suppose.

What also makes my blood boil (continuing on the "token woman" theme is that if there is more than one woman in an action type film, you pretty much know that all of them bar the heroine will be killed off in time for the "happy" ending.

I've now developed a habit of, when a token women appears in an action film, declaring "oh look here's something for the hero to kiss at the end to prove he's not gay."