Can't believe I'm writing this, but disappointed in JK today

[RobynMiller]

I know she is just one person but her tweets today are really undermining the whole GC argument.

Link: https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/2046948644373274709

'Nothing's changed. I was being honest about how I feel about an individual trans woman I know, who was a gay man pre-transition, and who I met for the first time post-transition. Objectively speaking, she has physical characteristics that make it fairly obvious she wasn't born female, but she's a gentle, funny person I've never referred to as anything other than 'she' and 'her'. I find it perfectly easy to reconcile my fond feelings towards her, and my experience of her as someone with very female-coded energy, with a belief that she hasn't literally changed sex (and incidentally, she doesn't believe she's literally changed sex, either).'

Basically, someone asked her about the trans identified male she mentioned in her 2020 essay and this was her response.

Does she not realise there can be NO EXCEPTIONS? Give an inch they'll take a mile and all that. It doesn't matter that he is gentle and funny or that he has very female-coded energy whatever the hell that means.

This does make it seem like when she calls TIMs out she is now doing it maliciously as she is perfectly happy to play pretend if she likes them enough.

Just so frustrating as it basically says that 'we could all play along with TRAs just fine and are choosing not to because we're such meanies 😡'

And that's part of why I specified that people shouldn't be forced to missex people at work.

Reverend is not a job. It’s a title that, traditionally, signifies that the minister is worthy of reverence because of their ordained status: their relationship with god, essentially.

If an atheist uses it to refer to a friend, are they betraying their own beliefs and movement? Affirming a lie? I think, in interpersonal situations where no one is in any doubt about who believes what, that they are not.

Actually everyone on here accusing op of purity spiralling is doing the very same, creating pure saints and pure demons, the former group being uncriticisable.

It is possible to admire and be grateful for stuff JKR has done and said, but still criticise/scrutinise details. That's the opposite of requiring or expecting purity

Ah. Yep. I did wonder.

But she isn't 'hand wringing'.

You seem to be missing the point that she's not calling for this TW to be treated like a woman, which is where the problem starts. She's not saying 'let my friend into the ladies'.

I don't think it's the massive hypocritical issue you're trying to make it. You seem to be making a lot of assumptions about what she might have meant.

I didn't like the 'female coded' woo comment either though.

There's also a massive difference between compelled pronoun use and choosing to do it as a courtesy. I personally wouldn't do it (I can just about manage 'they') but I will rage against compelled pronouns.

Reverend is literally a job. It's a job within a religious organisation but it is still a job.

Calling an adult She is treating them like a woman.

Hardly! Even those defending her are disagreeing with the female coded comment. Just defending her right to choose the pronouns she uses. As I choose the ones I use.

I don’t use preferred pronouns for the trans people in my life, and have managed to wing my way through it politely. But I don’t stop others from doing what they need to do.

No she isn't.

She's not saying he should be in single sex spaces.

The job is vicar/rector/incumbent/priest in charge. The title is ‘the reverend’.

OK, but you realise you are splitting the atheist movement and displaying rank hypocrisy with this view you insist on.

I’ve got no problem with this at all.

The basis of GC is that TW are TW not women. She is clear that her friend is not a woman, acknowledging that she has not changed sex.

She is showing friendship to her friend, who believes they have feminine gender…

Proving that she is not transphobic.

I’m not interested in purity spirals.

JK has done so much, endured so much put so much money into fighting ‘TW are W’ and funding other women to do so.

I wouldn’t ever presume that I am a better GC than her, or be disappointed in her.

Her relationship with her friend is not in alignment with ‘TW are W’.

She had never spoken out against TIM per se, just TW are W, TRAs, TW in sports snd women’s spaces. She has been consistent on that.

totally agree with this.

OK maybe you aren’t who I meant. I guess I meant those on here who got very angry and indignant on JKR's behalf, accusing op of burning Harry Potter books and such like.

I personally think it's wise not to have pure saints and pure demons for public figures. For example there are a couple of politicians I admire and respect but I don't agree with 100% of their views, and occasionally disapprove of things they say. It's normal. If that inspires rage in you (general you) then that's worth examining if you've sanctified that person too much in your mind.

Atheists, definitionally, don't care

She is the pronoun reserved for females, do you disagree?

That’s not the definition of atheist either.

Anyway, splitter. You are what is going to let the evils of religion back in with your lying.

OP, we used to call them all ‘she’ back in the day, with the unspoken agreement that everyone knew full well what was going on and no one was actually pretending to change sex. JK is around my age, I see no conflict. It’s only the times that have changed.

To be honest so long as he stays out of single sex spaces, which he does, then I couldn't care less what he calls himself or what courtesy his friend gives him.

But I don’t stop others from doing what they need to do.

Again, no one is stopping JKR from doing anything.

Disagreeing/disapproving, anonymously on a forum, is nothing like compulsion.

And yet you call him he. Interesting.

Anyway, going to bed now, hoping some sanity will have returned to the board by morning.

Yes because, as JKR actually said he is a gay man!

I don't know him so why would I give him the courtesy of calling him she?

It is up to JKR if she wants to use his preferred name/ pronouns.

Where does anyone say this person insists on being called she? Yes, she likes to be called she and at least some of her friends go along with it, but that is hardly "insisting".

Why shouldn't she? Are we really going to impose a right to police people's speech now?

It's funny because about 25 years ago i went to a night class where the teacher was obviously someone who was male but was presenting as female. We thought of them as she and her even though we knew they weren't and it all kind of worked.

It is only since there has been TRA's that has made us dial back on this. The whole insistence on trans women are women thing. Before that it kinda worked and JK Rowling was the only one, or one of the few, who were big enough and powerful enough to speak out. I remember speaking to a friend and saying that I couldnt voice my views because they would be unacceptable at work, I still need to police them to some extent.

Anyhow, I think JK is just doing what we used to do and I get the argument that it is not as safe to do that now - because it was used to our disadvantage but I think most people agree with - live your life how you want to be, wear what you want to wear, ask people to treat you like you want to be treated but fundamentally you have not changed sex and are not now a woman and in sports and other competitive environments where you have an advantage you should not be treated as that opposite sex person. And also in things like 'woman of the year' etc. dont take that persons space!