Woman dies by euthanasia after becoming paraplegic trying to commit suicide after gang rape

[AComplicatedWoman]

This is one of the most heartbreaking news stories I have come across.

Noelia Castillo had a difficult childhood and spent much of it in care homes. She was sexually assaulted by her ex-boyfriend of four years after she had taken sleeping pills to help her sleep, and was assaulted on another occasion by several men in a nightclub. She attempted suicide in October 2022, and it left her unable to use her legs and in a wheelchair. Noelia conducted a long legal battle with her father for the right to end her life and she died by euthanasia on Thursday.

RIP Noelia. I am so sorry that your life was destroyed by these abhorrent abusive men.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/noelia-castillo-euthanasia-law-spain-b2946671.html

Then have that conversation elsewhere. This thread is about this woman.

The comparison to animals is very worrying.

Humans own animals, it's considered a human rights abuse for humans to own humans. Once you're making life or death decisions for a person against their wishes, you're basically treating them like a slave with no right to self-determination.

However the speed with which we've moved to 'we put animals out of their misery' shows why this is very much something the state shouldn't be able to do without cast iron expensive procedures and legal safeguards (that take a long time, as in this case).

I also think the whole thing of 'putting them out of their misery' is nothing more than making the person saying it feel better about themselves. The truth is we don't know, if we could know, many dogs and cats might choose more life doddering around the house and gradually declining rather than death.

'Putting them out of their misery' often = not inconveniencing me or making me poorer. Not always, but sometimes.

I have to say to this post - get out more. See and experience some more of the world.

Quite a lot of people end up with impossible, unendurable suffering where the only answer is the longed- for oblivion of death. Not everything can be 'helped' or healed. Not everyone has a good life.

Also, don't vote for the political parties who cut the Social Services to the bone and beyond, until this situation happens.

People already have the right to decide what to do with their own bodies. They can commit suicide. Euthanasia, however, involves other people and that's where things get murky.

On an individual level I understand why someone should have help to end things on their own terms, but I am very wary of the state being involved in the deaths of citizens. I don't trust that they won't cut down on palliative care and welfare etc as a result.

Apologies, I just rechecked and you are right, he actually introduced the abortion comparison on pg 1 of the thread. Let’s not keep feeding that bit of nonsense though.

Lots of posters are bringing in other subjects though, earlier in th thread someone claimed that if you dont support euthanasia, ergo, you must therefore support recriminalisation of suicide. (quite how the mental gymnastics of that go I dont know)

But these topics overlap with other things, its inevitable.

But but but... he's a very important feminist! 🙄

No one is deciding whether or not she should be 'allowed' to die. They're discussing whether or not the state should be involved in that death, when it wasn't physically necessary. As distasteful as it is to discuss, there are ways and means that are not difficult or particularly painful. Look at Robin Williams, Chris Cornell, or Chester Bennington.

There are also dangers to normalising state-assisted suicide, and Canada I think is a good example of what those can be.

No one is saying she shouldn't have been able to take her own life, they're just questioning the possible ramifications of involving the state in it.

It's easy to lose track on a long thread! And I agree.

Im really shocked at the Canada stuff, I hadnt realised this

I often think what would I do if I want to end it, it would be say if I had a terminal illness or life changing condition that would be painful. It would be pain I think that would cause me to think like that

And I would think of a nice gentle way out that Im in control of. But then you have to think that someone would find you. And if you dont succeed and get it wrong you could be living on life support or worse actually, concious but not able to move and not able to attempt it again without help so now you're really stuck

But equally some of these systems dont seem right either.

Because that is the choice SHE made for herself. It's not your body, it's not your life. If she had had that option to start with she could have died peacefully instead of attempting suicide and ending up paraplegic.

It would be nice if people engaged with arguments and not made personal attacks, based on someone's sex. Plenty of women have the same views.

The only reason we know this poster's sex is because of his work to protect women's dignity, safety and privacy which ultimately, if successful, will reduce VAWG and the trauma women and girls experience because of it. He's the kind of man we say we want and yet.,..

If I was a conspiracy theorist I'd wonder if attacks on him were because of his legal action to protect women and girls. I don't think as a tactic that would work but it's definitely something that's been tried elsewhere.

When did Spain introduce this?

It probably would've been better if, after her rape, she was offered proper mental health support, rather than the opportunity to enact state-assisted suicide.

Do we really want to push the message of: "Traumatised by being raped? Don't fret! Get your painless suicide here!"

Couldn't agree more. Notice how these pro state-managed euthanasia governments are in a rush to get their poorly worded bills passed - without discussion or interest in wider palliative needs. What's happened in Canada is nothing short of dystopian.

And much further back than that of course, what support did she have for her early formative childhood experiences

If Spain is anything like the UK, the pisspoor offerings from CAMHS wouldnt give you any hope that you can work through childhood trauma

And, some posters make the pertinent point, that I have heard from my MH colleagues over the years that in some ways society lives in a bit of a fantasy about that, that you can be therapied out of trauma, you can be fixed, you can be ok. Perhaps that was never to be for her. Perhaps some people will never be better.

I do lose track very easily, damn you menopausal brain fog! Ty for understanding.

I don't know about you, but as a feminist, I don't want a bar of a man who's against abortion.

The comment about the court case was a bit of a sarcastic JOKE, probably because he recognises the personal attacks for what they are, as do I (a woman). Because what other posters are suggesting is that as a man he shouldn't have an opinion on matters affecting women and girls. But he is a father to and, presumably, a son of female people.

And he's entitled to his views just like anyone else. This is a very very contested area with a wide range of opinions. When does killing someone go from being a crime, one of the worst things a human can do and one of the worst crimes someone can commit to not being a crime.

It's a very difficult line to tread.

Elderly woman with terminal illness killed by burglar. 'Well the state would have done it soon anyway, so he saved some taxpayer money, it was 'putting her out of her misery' let him off'. It's not unthinkable.

Especially since our society still has a bit of the ruined woman, living as a rape survivor is a fate worse than death, what did you do to put yourself in that situation, stigma and victim blaming surrounding rape.

Yes, I'm sure it would.

However, some people might still feel that their trauma was unbearable to live with and choose to end their own life on their own terms.

And mental health services don't have magic cures or the funding to provide endless assistance, and never will. Keeping someone in pain and misery for years because one day MH services might get their act together is cruel.

And its not even about getting their act together as I and others have said.

Therapy and MH intervention cant fix everything, sad to say.

All I know is that at 25 no serious attempt to help her with mental health interventions could have been made. I could well believe that after 25 years of therapy someone could give up. But not so young and after such recent trauma can I believe there was no help and all possibilities of help had been tried and failed.

He's not the 'kind of man' I want to listen to. His opinions on abortion, his 'brush with death'🙄 and calling women pigeons reveal who he is.

I think it should NEVER be the case - like in Canada - that completely physically fit people with capacity can be murdered by the state. Even if they say they want it. They can do it themselves if they want to.

However where there is a grey area is in cases like Noelia who was in constant pain, physically disabled and couldn't do it herself and possibly also didn't have anyone who would take the risk and help her.

Should the state have killed her immediately after her gang rape (that it's almost certain the state did nothing to prevent from happening), because she didn't want to live then either? No, obviously not. I wonder if her suffering then could have been improved by castration of her rapists and whole life sentences? Proper therapy and support? Lots of women are retraumatised when their rapists are released from prison and they see them wandering around, free to rape again. There are lots of issues to explore around this case.

One of the issues for women who need ongoing care is that there is nothing they can do to protect themselves from rapist carers. And rapes do happen quite a lot in healthcare settings as we know against incapacitated, vulnerable women.