Safeguarding concerns about floor-to-ceiling cubicles in mixed-sex primary toilets Scotland

[IKnowWhatAWomanIs]

A friend’s child attends a primary school in Scotland, East Ren, where they've recently refurbished the toilets. They've turned one former girls' block and one former boys' block into gender-neutral/mixed-sex facilities. They've kept the basic layout (separate rooms with multiple cubicles) but removed the urinals from the ex-boys' one, so now both are just cubicles. Crucially, they've installed floor-to-ceiling doors on all the cubicles.

This feels like a massive safeguarding red flag to me: full-height doors mean almost no adult visibility or quick oversight. If a child collapses (e.g., seizure, asthma attack, diabetic issue), tries to self-harm, or is being bullied/abused inside, no one would know until it's too late. Partial-height doors allow better monitoring while still giving privacy.

There is a woman, whose username I forget, on here that is an expert on single sex toilets & I would love to say the magic spell so she appears to give her opinion.

What kids are being exposed to because of the gender zealots shows once again that safeguarding concerns go out of the window in the name of 'trans' inclusion.

The gaps isn't just about children. Its pretty much everyone. Children might be less likely to have a heart attack as a pp said but they can still faint, have fits, asthma attacks etc.
When people feel ill, toilets are a place they commonly go to get a bit of privacy, close their eyes for a second or catch their breath. It's a common place to get taken ill.
It comes up on a first aid training and most emergency services staff will know this.
You also have to remember that someone can collapse against a door making it harder to open and get to them.
The number of people who collapse and need help in toilets is higher than you might think and even if it were a small number, it's also a small number who might need public defibrillators or bleed kits but we still put them out there.
I recognise that people might think it's a decent compromise solution but it does have an impact on safety and that does need to be considered.

Thank you. It is common sense isn’t it.

However I have been researching toilet safety for several years and the evidence and academic papers also back my conclusions.

11% of cardiac arrests happen on the toilet (straining places extra pressure on the heart). It’s also not just physical health, it’s mental health too and drug overdoses. There’s also a problem with young women being spiked.

I have spoken to paramedics and they say when they enter a home of a lone person who doesn’t respond to them, they are likely to find them in the bathroom.

What is frustrating is that venues have defibrillators, their doors can open outwards but a person can be having a medical emergency and no one knows. One mumsnetter told me this happened in a cardiac ward to a relative. Now wards are supposed to be single sex, there’s even more reason for this not to be happening.

I’m curious as to why most loo doors in the U.K. open inwards - I’ve just been on holiday to the Netherlands (mostly Amsterdam) and the norm there seemed to be outward opening. Apart from the safety aspect (which I probably wouldn’t have realised were it not for Keep) it meant there was more space for the sanitary bins.

A well known TRA account.

It’s so you don’t whack anyone in the face on exiting. You may notice ambulant cubicles (at the end of a row) do open outwards for the ease of getting out for a frailer user. If you have small kids these are handy to know about too when trying to get you all out! Ambulant cubicles also have a proper pull handle for people will limited dexterity and a push bar. Inward opening doors are supposed to be able to have the ability to open outwards in all designs in an emergency precisely to get the occupant out who has collapsed. This is in regs in England, Scotland, NI and Wales.

The problem comes when people try and compensate for the area in front of the cubicles being ambiguous or mixed sex. The most obvious solution is to leave the normal plumbing in place and make everything full height. This is not in the regulations - a mixed non-domestic toilet should be it’s own room not a cubicle.

The advantages of a maximum 150mm floor to door gap was listed in Standards at the time of 1992 Health and Safety legislation (ventilation, supervision, prevention of misuse, cleaning). It’s not that big a gap - but fulfils such an important role for an occupant at their most vulnerable. The most important part of any rescue is knowing someone needs rescuing in the first place!

Just the smell alone from mixed sex floor-to-ceiling toilets 😫At least in open cubicles there is some air flow. I can imagine it leading to children holding on and not actually using the toilets when they need to - already an issue for many in schools. Plus the bullying towards anyone who did emerge from a ‘smelly toilet’ with no plausible deniability.

For someone with epilepsy they are routinely advised not to lock the bathroom door when they have a bath or a shower, and not to have a bath if no-one else is in the house. If they had a choice of public toilets someone with epilepsy or otherwise at risk of sudden collapse is definitely safer in a cubicle with a floor gap.

Lack of ventilation and being able to clean properly (soaking and draining) is a major problem. Unisex toilets are discouraged by microbiologists in hospitals.

Look at the list of microbes in this report 🤢:
https://salus.global/article-show/pathogen-findings-raise-concerns-about-move-to-unisex-hospital-facilities

I thought for this to be allowed they needed to fully self contained cubicles (with sinks) opening onto a corridor, this doesn't sound like an arrangement which can lawfully be mixed sex?

Schools are not part of the 1992 legislation. They are subject to the 1974 legislation.

Agree. Full height doors and cubicles are far less of a safeguarding risk than mixed sex facilities with doors and cubicles that don't stop men and boys shoving a phone through the gap in order to film females.

Boys in new-build schools where I worked discovered that you could open these doors from the outside using a 10p piece. The toilets were single sex, so the victims were other boys.

There was no exterior door—the sink area was open to the corridor—so, depending on the configuration the victim could be visible from the corridor. [The lack of an exterior door was supposed to stop vandalism.]

The last time that I did supply in one of the new-builds—over a year ago—the HT had finally managed to organise to have the locks replaced.

Re: safeguarding.

My aunt died of a brain haemorrhage in a toilet cubicle at work. It might not have made a difference, but if there had been a gap at the bottom of the door there's a chance she might have been found sooner.

This shows how crucial it is to get design right. I know of a school case where a child desperately needed assistance and they had to tell staff to go and get special key to open the door. In other cases in nightclubs, it’s been far too long getting firemen out to wrench the door open. It’s not just emergencies. It can be about getting trapped.

I am very sorry about your relative. I know a famous actress has spoken of a similar incident. The woman in the ladies next to her rescued her. I know someone who was on their own and felt ill, went to the toilet and had a stroke. His wife came back from shopping to find him unconscious in the bathroom. Sometimes it’s just a cruel matter of being unlucky. But health and safety laws and design should try and mitigate this as much as possible.

@Keeptoiletssafe

Thank you.