Men’s final salary pensions nearly double women’s at state pension age

[IwantToRetire]

Men’s DB (final salary) annual pensions are worth nearly twice the value of women’s, at £13,900 compared to £7,500 net per annum, while their DC (contribution) pensions are worth more than three times as much, at £90,000 compared to £28,500.

The findings come from a Department for Work and Pensions analysis of 7,802 adults aged 62 to 65 from the 1958 National Child Development Study, examining their preparation for retirement and overall pension adequacy.

Around 8 in 10 participants had some form of private pension, but women were more likely to rely heavily on the State Pension and less likely to meet a moderate Retirement Living Standard.

Meanwhile, nearly half, 47 per cent, of participants were expected to depend on the state pension for between 67 and 100 per cent of their retirement income. This group was more likely to include women, those with lower educational attainment, the self-employed and renters. Around half were also estimated not to have sufficient pension income to maintain their pre-retirement standard of living.

Continues https://corporate-adviser.com/mens-db-pensions-nearly-double-womens-at-state-pension-age/

How did you make it work?

Every couple I know who both work full-time, one at least has a very short commute or WFH.
Or they both work shifts so never see each other either.
They also rely on family to plug the gaps.

We both worked full time (DH a GP/me Corporate Finance Director - his surgery was quite near to home but he did the morning drop offs and I collected). No family living in the same country. We found an excellent nursery and two of the key workers became our babysitters for years so that we could go out each week. We had a cleaner who also put away the online food shopping, did the laundry, changed the beds, did batch cooking etc.
We weren’t unusual amongst our friends.

it’s not impossible.

i worked shifts, dh 9-5. Dh longish commute, mine reasonable. No wfh when kids were young.

no family support.

i did drop offs pick ups depending on shift. So if i was earlies dh would drop on his way to work, I’d pick up. Vice versa for lates.

dh had a fight initially at work. This was early 00’s, like I said no wfh. Dh’s job was male dominated and to start they were resistant to him being half an hour late after nursery runs, or not staying late because of pick up. Or leaving/days off for a sick child. Lots of “can’t your wife do it”. Stuck to his guns though and eventually it became the norm, many men now work around kids, and they employ more women.

we had a cleaner so time off was spent doing family stuff. I would usually get stuff done on my mornings off when everyone was out. Dh would do the clubs and hobbies weekends and evenings when I worked.

i have quite a lot of friends as well who both changed working hours- two doing 4 days a week worked better than one Ft and one 3 days. Dh did compressed hours at one point so 4 days which worked really well around my shifts.

there are many alternatives to man FT, woman sah/pt. We’re just very socialised into that norm, and many women do actually give up ft work out of choice. Posts here when women are considering it don’t ever factor in whether the man wants to continue FT, or whether there are other option.

DH ex wife insisted she worked part time and he worked full time.

He would have loved to have had more time with his children and he is by far the better parent (my observation, he doesn't bad mouth people but the more I got to know her the more I understood why he left her - she bragged to me that she never comforts her children when they are injured or upset, just as one example)

I've always worked full time . Even when a single mum with a disability. I found a job that let me work some of my hours when the children were in bed and I worked so hard I was able to climb the career ladder swiftly.

If we choose to work part time we have to accept the impact on our pensions not blame others for our choices

No family near me. Single mum.

I did make a sideways move into a more flexible career. Did 4 days in the office and the rest at home. Paid for a cleaner. Often worked late into the night.once the kids were in bed. Had a supportive boss so was ok when kids were ill etc.

Today in Times.

https://www.thetimes.com/article/d3fb1979-a71e-48a2-b04c-bbbe5f2eeff6?shareToken=369efa2352185ba5cb1189eb8649f2c7

Two women retire on the same day in two different countries. They each worked just as hard as the other, raised families, paid taxes and did everything that was asked of them. One will retire comfortably with security and independence. The other will have to count every pound.

That’s an interesting article though it does point out an important difference in that the pension gap really emerges in private pensions whereas in other European countries (such as Slovenia) most pension is state funded whereas in the UK the state element is merely a top-up.

I love the sound of this but the million dollar question is: how do we fund it?

I moved around a lot too, and often worked on fix-term contracts.But I never did much in terms of a private pension until the rules changed and you weren't locked into the annuity system. What a scam that is!

I have always felt that it’s discrimination, the government want women to have babies, then women are penalised (with the effect on their pensions) when they have to take time off work to have the babies and look after them.

My pension wasn’t impacted. I went back to full time work when DT’s were six months old (normal maternity leave then). My career progressed as did my pension contributions.

That’s good. I expect you’re the exception - no mother (who has paid employment) I know hasn’t been negatively impacted (career progression, salary and pension ) by taking maternity leave and in some cases going part time to allow nursery/school drop off /pick up. They either couldn’t afford/find suitable childcare. Not everyone has family on hand to help.

We didn’t have family in the country. DH did morning nursery/breakfast club drops offs and I collected after nursery/after school club. Neither of us went part time.

Great, I am genuinely happy that worked out for you. It doesn’t change the fact that all the “working mothers” that I know weren’t in that situation and their pensions have suffered because of it.

Why were they in that situation though?

did the “working fathers” pensions also suffer? If not, why not?

all the mothers I know that gave up work or cut hours for childcare did so out of their own choice. I have asked some why they didn’t split with their husbands so they didn’t take such a career/pension hit- both going 4 days for example.

not one considered or wanted that. I want to be around for my children- not one thought of whether the dad also might want to be around.

Childcare costs are always measured against mums salary- how often do we hear “my salary didn’t cover childcare”. Many don’t consider the long term financial loss, only that in the short term they pay more for nursery than they earn. No consideration that dad’s salary should be contributing.

if we’re honest, many women give up work because they choose to. I’ve known women be the higher earners and even then they won’t consider dad as the sahp.

most couples I know the woman has made the decision to reduce working hours and dad goes along with it.

i reduced my hours when the kids were young because my work allowed it. Then when they were older I got a new role, so dh went part time. So it’s not just me taking the pension hit.

We’re still stuck in a society which tells us mums sah, dads work. But the same society has now moved on and those dads aren’t expected to support those mums for the rest of their lives if they do decide to take the career hit. Women need to catch up and make sure they remain financially independent before they choose to become dependent on a man.

It's a myth that always gets trotted out on these threads. The long held view was that public sector pensions were higher to balance against lower wages. My friend could have earned two or three times more as an accountant in the private sector but stayed because of the other benefits such as flexible working and higher pensions. Those public sector pension schemes don't exist any more so your 'anomaly' was fixed years ago. What you are seeing is the tail end of older people retiring on the old scheme. I'm in the teachers pension scheme and it hasn't been a final salary scheme since 2015.

Happily there's nothing "unfair about it". Or if there is then what is unfair is how underpaid the public sector is (even taking pension package into account)

When I try and recruit lawyers we struggle to get applicants despite the great pensions and the enormous flexibility - because the salaries are so much lower. .

A few anecdotal examples for you:

DH's unreconstructed pig of a boss sniped at him and said things like "Not serious about your career then? Don't you want to play with the big boys?" when he so much as said he needed to leave in time for nursery pickup, let alone take extended paternity leave or go part time.

(Yes, he changed jobs, but these things take time.)

My work was discussing putting in an onsite nursery. It was vetoed partly on the grounds that "it was meant as an employee perk, but it would get filled by men's wives' children."

A married couple at my work several years later both asked for parental leave. She got automatic agreement. He got a "Well, we really mean that for the mothers, and a step back at this point wouldn't be good for your progression."

It's an endless series of prods and hurdles like that that add up.

It unfortunately takes time but we need to stop women accepting (in the majority of cases) that they will be the lower earner in the relationship and it makes more sense for them to give up work or go part time. Why aren’t women aiming for the higher paid jobs? I’ve told DD (and DS), aim high in your education so you have opportunities and most importantly a choice.

and how many men/women then just allow that. Dh’s work aren’t flexible so I had no choice but to give up work/go part time as my work were fine with it.

I am very familiar with the attitudes of workplaces toward men.

20 years ago dh struggled in his male dominated workplace. Got “can’t your wife do it” many a time.

stuck to his guns. No, she’s at work, I have to pick the kids up.

i wasn’t going to give up work so either his work flexed or he found another job.

eventually they realised the work got done if someone arrived half an hour early to leave early, or skipped lunch. By the time he left more men were picking up kids and they even started employing women.

things do change. But people need to start forcing it. Stop taking the path of least resistance, make jobs flex whether you’re male or female. Point out inequality.

How hybrid roles and flexible working are widening women’s wealth gaps

https://www.independent.co.uk/money/iwd-women-flexible-working-hybrid-jobs-b2931896.html