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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

A point about the "exclusion" of masculine-looking women from female toilets

31 replies

MyAmpleSheep · 30/12/2025 09:38

It is sometimes cited in the press that FWS will or must lead to the lawful exclusion of women of masculine appearance from women's facilities, and that therefore FWS was an own-goal for women.

This is based on 221 of FWS:

Moreover, women living in the male gender could also be excluded under paragraph 28 without this amounting to gender reassignment discrimination. This might be considered proportionate where reasonable objection is taken to their presence, for example, because the gender reassignment process has given them a masculine appearance or attributes to which reasonable objection might be taken in the context of the women-only service being provided.

I believe what is reported profoundly misunderstands what the Justices wrote in that paragraph.

What they are saying is that there may be places where merely having a masculine appearance or attributes will reasonably be objectionable. That might (for instance) be a rape crisis centre or counselling service. It would not necessarily be (and in my opinion would not be) a generally provided women's toilet. Women can cope with women of masculine appearance in a women's toilet. It is not people (women) of masculine appearance in women's toilet that are an issue. It is men, of all appearances, in women's toilet, that is at issue.

The law does not, therefore give "permission" for women of masculine appearance to be excluded from women's toilets. It does give permission for women of masculine appearance to be excluded from (eg) rape crisis centres or counselling services.

That seems to me to be appropriate.

OP posts:
Namelessnelly · 14/01/2026 22:30

MarieDeGournay · 14/01/2026 17:16

When this trope of butch lesbians being chased out of women's toilets first bubbled to the surface, e.g. Dawn Butler MP claiming that butch lesbians of her acquaintance - or maybe it was just one? - have to be accompanied to the ladies by a protective posse of straight women, my first reaction was:
where did all these butch lesbians come from??

There are not many lesbians in the UK - one less since I left 😄- and only a small proportion of them are noticeably butch; an even smaller proportion would be so butch that they could be mistaken for men.

And yet, everybody seemed to have one of them as a friend, who was chased out of the ladies. I don't buy it - there just aren't enough butch lesbians to go around to make all these incidents believable!

There’s just one butch lesbian but she’s making a killing as a rent-a-friend

ArabellaSaurus · 14/01/2026 22:51

Britinme · 14/01/2026 17:02

Another good reason why transmen need safeguarding too - because they're women. Looking at the face of the victim, I would have clocked her as female however butch she presented.

x.com/i/trending/2011397317677523342

The victim is unnnamed, and there are no pictures.

Britinme · 14/01/2026 23:19

Ah my apologies I made a mistake there.

ThreeWordHarpy · 15/01/2026 00:49

MarieDeGournay · 14/01/2026 22:29

In the past posters have complained about commenting on transmen like this, but I think it's important for young women who believe they can 'transition' to know that they'll probably, like Fynn, be totally unconvincing as men, and everybody is going to know that they are actually women.

I realise that's tough on individuals who think they have transitioned and believe are now seen as members of their chosen sex, but it's important for those considering transitioning that it's highly unlikely they'll 'pass'.

And that's just the parts of them we can see - the faux-genitals that gender reassignment surgery offers also need to be called out as unconvincing and non-functional.

Young people need to know the truth - not only can you not change your sex, you probably won't even look like you've changed your sex.

Show quote history

i think it’s Fynn’s hands and stature that confirmed it for me. But Pottery Throwdown isn’t a single sex space and Fynn is clearly a very talented potter and there on merit. On that basis Fynn’s biological sex and/or gender identity and/or sexual identity is as irrelevant for the purposes of the contest as it is for any of the other contestants.

I think it's important for young women who believe they can 'transition' to know that they'll probably, like Fynn, be totally unconvincing as men, and everybody is going to know that they are actually women.

Agree 100%.

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 15/01/2026 02:10

everybody is going to know that they are actually women.

There's a current thread about how that can have serious consequences when a trans-identifying woman is locked in the men's psych ward.

Britinme · 15/01/2026 03:02

ThreeWordHarpy · 15/01/2026 00:49

i think it’s Fynn’s hands and stature that confirmed it for me. But Pottery Throwdown isn’t a single sex space and Fynn is clearly a very talented potter and there on merit. On that basis Fynn’s biological sex and/or gender identity and/or sexual identity is as irrelevant for the purposes of the contest as it is for any of the other contestants.

I think it's important for young women who believe they can 'transition' to know that they'll probably, like Fynn, be totally unconvincing as men, and everybody is going to know that they are actually women.

Agree 100%.

Show quote history

This is the important point - given that this is a contest in which the sex of the potter is irrelevant and has no impact on the outcome, it’s great that Fynn is living in a way that Fynn feels comfortable, with tattoos (Fynn is a tattooist by trade), facial hair and marriage to a chosen partner. I’m just sad that she feels the need to pretend to be the sex she isn’t in order to do those perfectly acceptable things.

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