Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
Thread gallery
5
PollyNomial · 19/12/2025 14:48

I don't know why it's considered perverse that a man who has helped raised children and enjoyed it may then wish to do so for his job.

Very disappointing levels of sexism on display here.

timesublimelysilencesthewhys · 19/12/2025 15:48

Its not that its strange that a man might want to work in childcare, its that the first priority should safeguarding not mens career aspirations.

BundleBoogie · 19/12/2025 16:15

PollyNomial · 18/12/2025 19:54

Why would any woman want to be part of a profession that was exclusively male, day, medicine? There must be something suspect about a woman who wants to ignore the caring profession of nursing etc etc (all the other blanket "reasoning" applied to men)

The sex discrimination act being celebrated on another thread works for all and fortunately this is a theoretical exercise. To be able to do what some think is sensible would need that act (and its successors) to be repealed. That would very likely see incredibly retrograde situations that we don't miss to re-emerge.

I am confused about what you are trying to say here. The Sex Discrimination Act 1975 was superseded by the Equality Act 2010 and fortunately recognises that sometimes it is necessary and lawful to discriminate on the basis of sex. This includes some cases of employment.

As the proportion of male nursery workers that now have a conviction for abusing the young children in their care exponentially outweighs the proportion of female workers similarly convicted, this might need to be taken into account when considering recruitment policies in nurseries. I don’t think there should be any campaigns to encourage men into these roles.

Your comparison is incorrect because we know there is a difference in behaviour and risk factors between men and women so you can’t just reverse the sexes to make your point.

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 19/12/2025 17:55

PollyNomial · 19/12/2025 14:48

I don't know why it's considered perverse that a man who has helped raised children and enjoyed it may then wish to do so for his job.

Very disappointing levels of sexism on display here.

It's not about perversity. It's about safeguarding kids from the identifiable 50% of the population that contains over 90% of the sexual offenders.

Lisak and Miller reckon that 6% of men will admit to rape and sexual assault as long as you describe the act without using the words "rape" or "sexual assault", e.g. "have you ever made someone have sex with you when you knew they didn't want to?"

Extrapolating from that, less than 0.6% of women commit comparable sexual offences.

You are starving. I lock you in a room for a week with a fridge containing two clearly-labelled loaves of bread: one that has a 6% chance of being poisoned, and one with a 0.6% chance of being poisoned. Which do you eat?

PoeticEnding · 19/12/2025 19:46

Can you see any disadvantages from a ban on men in childcare settings?
Isn't already legal under the 2010 equality act... or maybe needs a test case.

timesublimelysilencesthewhys · 19/12/2025 19:48

Unless men provide better childcare than women, what would the disavantages to children be?

WilfredsPies · 19/12/2025 23:47

PollyNomial · 19/12/2025 14:48

I don't know why it's considered perverse that a man who has helped raised children and enjoyed it may then wish to do so for his job.

Very disappointing levels of sexism on display here.

Sexism? Posters are highlighting a concern about high numbers of men harming children, and how an increase in victim numbers is likely if men are being encouraged to work in environments where there are vulnerable and non verbal children, and you’re disappointed by levels of sexism? Fuck my old boots, what is going on in your head? Why aren’t you disappointed in the high numbers of sex offenders? Who in their right mind gives a shit about sexism when this is going on? If you don’t understand the damage that is done to children who are abused, which ruins lives, then bloody ask. There are enough of us about. Personally, I don’t give a flying fuck about sexism; I’m not willing to sacrifice a child’s life in some experiment in providing dangerous men yet another avenue to access children. I don’t give a shit if it offends them. It’s certainly not going to make them feel the way csa victims feel.

I would rather see increased awareness, training, safeguarding measures, and indeed research into and intervention for men who have these paraphilias to catch and treat them before they harm anyone You can’t treat paedophiles. You might as well try and fix a psychopath. You’d have as much success. Maybe there is the odd one or two that you can convince not to hurt a child. But that doesn’t change their nature. The most you can do is keep them away.

The consensus here is that to be born male is a genetic crime. They are more likely to commit violent or sexual offences. Its biology. They should be treated with suspicion, banned from jobs or situations with access to children, women or girls. Men are increasingly seen as a lesser form of humanity. I think men and boys are starting to realise this, as they listen to women discussing them and their behaviour's. Equality cannot be applied to them, as other members of society must have priority of security and feelings. A tough message for our young men to hear So fucking what? It should be a tough message to hear and they need to hear it. They’re raping women with impunity. They are so unlikely to even be charged that it’s practically legal. They’re killing us at a rate of 2-3 a week. And we’re not supposed to point this out or get angry about it in case their feelings get hurt? Fucking hell. If men and boys were being raped and killed by women at that rate, we’d be tagged and under curfew. Our young men need to hear exactly why women feel like this so they can separate themselves from the men who do this and make it clear that they think these men are monsters who should be excluded from society, rather than Dave down the pub who’s a right laugh, but you wouldn’t leave him alone with any women in your family.

@TempestTost They aren't exclusive categories. Child abuse and rape can happen in all kinds of ways, pornography involving children is a particular way of that happening You’ve had very clear explanations from at least two posters explaining this to you and I don’t know if it’s because you disagree, you’ve got a skull full of coleslaw or you are being purposely obtuse, so please excuse me for being a little more direct than others have been. There is NO SUCH THING as pornography involving children. It is men looking at images of child SA. To even imply that those images are even vaguely connected to what is generally accepted as a consensual activity is offensive and hurtful to victims in the extreme. And anybody who continues to link the two terms after having that explained to them has to be a pretty horrendous person. I would hope you wouldn’t use racist or homophobic slurs after being told how painful they are to hear? I hope you wouldn’t call a rape victim names? This is on a par with those things; it is that offensive. Will you please stop?

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 20/12/2025 00:00

WilfredsPies · 19/12/2025 23:47

Sexism? Posters are highlighting a concern about high numbers of men harming children, and how an increase in victim numbers is likely if men are being encouraged to work in environments where there are vulnerable and non verbal children, and you’re disappointed by levels of sexism? Fuck my old boots, what is going on in your head? Why aren’t you disappointed in the high numbers of sex offenders? Who in their right mind gives a shit about sexism when this is going on? If you don’t understand the damage that is done to children who are abused, which ruins lives, then bloody ask. There are enough of us about. Personally, I don’t give a flying fuck about sexism; I’m not willing to sacrifice a child’s life in some experiment in providing dangerous men yet another avenue to access children. I don’t give a shit if it offends them. It’s certainly not going to make them feel the way csa victims feel.

I would rather see increased awareness, training, safeguarding measures, and indeed research into and intervention for men who have these paraphilias to catch and treat them before they harm anyone You can’t treat paedophiles. You might as well try and fix a psychopath. You’d have as much success. Maybe there is the odd one or two that you can convince not to hurt a child. But that doesn’t change their nature. The most you can do is keep them away.

The consensus here is that to be born male is a genetic crime. They are more likely to commit violent or sexual offences. Its biology. They should be treated with suspicion, banned from jobs or situations with access to children, women or girls. Men are increasingly seen as a lesser form of humanity. I think men and boys are starting to realise this, as they listen to women discussing them and their behaviour's. Equality cannot be applied to them, as other members of society must have priority of security and feelings. A tough message for our young men to hear So fucking what? It should be a tough message to hear and they need to hear it. They’re raping women with impunity. They are so unlikely to even be charged that it’s practically legal. They’re killing us at a rate of 2-3 a week. And we’re not supposed to point this out or get angry about it in case their feelings get hurt? Fucking hell. If men and boys were being raped and killed by women at that rate, we’d be tagged and under curfew. Our young men need to hear exactly why women feel like this so they can separate themselves from the men who do this and make it clear that they think these men are monsters who should be excluded from society, rather than Dave down the pub who’s a right laugh, but you wouldn’t leave him alone with any women in your family.

@TempestTost They aren't exclusive categories. Child abuse and rape can happen in all kinds of ways, pornography involving children is a particular way of that happening You’ve had very clear explanations from at least two posters explaining this to you and I don’t know if it’s because you disagree, you’ve got a skull full of coleslaw or you are being purposely obtuse, so please excuse me for being a little more direct than others have been. There is NO SUCH THING as pornography involving children. It is men looking at images of child SA. To even imply that those images are even vaguely connected to what is generally accepted as a consensual activity is offensive and hurtful to victims in the extreme. And anybody who continues to link the two terms after having that explained to them has to be a pretty horrendous person. I would hope you wouldn’t use racist or homophobic slurs after being told how painful they are to hear? I hope you wouldn’t call a rape victim names? This is on a par with those things; it is that offensive. Will you please stop?

Rule Ten, innit.

WilfredsPies · 20/12/2025 00:11

@selffellatingouroborosofhate Thanks for that link, I’ll have a proper read through it all.

I came to these boards quite late in life, I’m nowhere near as educated or as well read as many of the posters here and I won’t lie, I regularly need to Google stuff as I’m reading so I vaguely understand what’s being discussed, but that was bloody infuriating.

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 20/12/2025 00:28

WilfredsPies · 20/12/2025 00:11

@selffellatingouroborosofhate Thanks for that link, I’ll have a proper read through it all.

I came to these boards quite late in life, I’m nowhere near as educated or as well read as many of the posters here and I won’t lie, I regularly need to Google stuff as I’m reading so I vaguely understand what’s being discussed, but that was bloody infuriating.

S'OK to be new. Just after I posted that, I realised for the first time ever that "not all men are like that" (NAMALT) is Rule Ten. A serving copper abducts, rapes, and murders Sara Everard, women are saying "so scared of men right now", and someone pops up with NAMALT: that's Rule Ten. More interested in doing PR for men than in listening to women because "the worst thing about male violence is that it makes men look bad". I've been here since, what 2018, and only just thought of that.

PoeticEnding · 20/12/2025 00:28

@selffellatingouroborosofhate 🤣....
(1) Believe women
(2) Increase sentences for MVAWG
(3) Greater resources to track down perpetrators.
(3) Bring boys up to understand their role to reduce violence and use their strength and emotions positively.
Anything you disagree with?

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 20/12/2025 00:47

PoeticEnding · 20/12/2025 00:28

@selffellatingouroborosofhate 🤣....
(1) Believe women
(2) Increase sentences for MVAWG
(3) Greater resources to track down perpetrators.
(3) Bring boys up to understand their role to reduce violence and use their strength and emotions positively.
Anything you disagree with?

Caveat to (2) is that the gap between the jail term for rape and the jail term for murder needs to be large enough that perps don't just say "y'know what, I might as well kill her whilst I'm at it because the sentence is nearly as long".

But, everything you've said takes time to take effect, whilst children are being hurt now. A ban on male staff in early years settings could be implemented now and reduce the risk now. Consider it a "transitional demand", as the Trotskyists would call it.

Not sure why the ROFL emoji. Have you omitted some context?

Wildbushlady · 20/12/2025 00:58

When women are in certain circumstances/places that leaves them vulnerable, we all agree that the best way to keep them safe is to not allow men in to those spaces.

Not because all men are predators, but because enough are that it would be a huge risk.

I'm not sure why tiny non-verbal children aren't being given the same protection.

Hell would freeze over before I used a nursery with male workers.

dick27 · 20/12/2025 10:54

Related, David Walliams doing school visits whilst his publisher had a policy of staff only meeting him in pairs and not going to his house. I very much doubt Walliams was ever alone with any kids but feck me he was being promoted as a soddding role model to 1000s of kids whilst knowingly being 'inappropriate'.

OP posts:
Elisheva · 22/12/2025 09:02

A thing I find telling is men’s attitudes to men who work in nurseries. There was a male worker at ds’s preschool and my dh wasn’t happy about it at all, and did not want him involved with changing/toileting ds. And our male friends all agreed with him when it came up in conversation.
I understand that it could be entrenched gender roles, but they’re not looking down on the men who want to work with very young children, they are suspicious of them. They are definitely not campaigning for them.

EatYourDamnPie · 22/12/2025 09:09

Elisheva · 22/12/2025 09:02

A thing I find telling is men’s attitudes to men who work in nurseries. There was a male worker at ds’s preschool and my dh wasn’t happy about it at all, and did not want him involved with changing/toileting ds. And our male friends all agreed with him when it came up in conversation.
I understand that it could be entrenched gender roles, but they’re not looking down on the men who want to work with very young children, they are suspicious of them. They are definitely not campaigning for them.

The issue with just focusing on the men, or keeping them out of such settings, is that it doesn’t fix failing safeguarding policies and protocols , understaffed settings and so on . Female nursery workers have been abusing children in various ways, even killed them . It happens. It will keep happening .We need to look at policies to make it as close to near impossible for it to happen. Then it won’t really matter if the worker is male or female.

Elisheva · 22/12/2025 09:47

If you stopped men from working in nurseries then the number of children being abused in nurseries would fall to almost zero.

EatYourDamnPie · 22/12/2025 09:55

Elisheva · 22/12/2025 09:47

If you stopped men from working in nurseries then the number of children being abused in nurseries would fall to almost zero.

Sadly not. At least 3 female nursery workers (I stopped looking as it’s fucking awful)were jailed last year for abusing children , one of them convicted of manslaughter as the baby sadly died.

timesublimelysilencesthewhys · 22/12/2025 10:10

The point is, if nursery workers were all male, how many children would be abused?

Nobody is saying every man and never women. Its about trying to reduced risk.

EatYourDamnPie · 22/12/2025 10:16

timesublimelysilencesthewhys · 22/12/2025 10:10

The point is, if nursery workers were all male, how many children would be abused?

Nobody is saying every man and never women. Its about trying to reduced risk.

Edited

And improved policies and ratios would prevent that regardless of sex. The male worker couldn’t use devices or be on their own with children for long enough to abuse them, the female worker wouldn’t be able to actually murder a child.

That’s why it needs to be a systemic change , before we look at the sexes. Or at least look at both at the same time if you must.

Elisheva · 22/12/2025 10:43

EatYourDamnPie · 22/12/2025 09:55

Sadly not. At least 3 female nursery workers (I stopped looking as it’s fucking awful)were jailed last year for abusing children , one of them convicted of manslaughter as the baby sadly died.

That’s why I said almost zero.
The single biggest thing we could do to dramatically reduce the number of children abused in nursery settings would be to stop men from working there.

EatYourDamnPie · 22/12/2025 10:53

Elisheva · 22/12/2025 10:43

That’s why I said almost zero.
The single biggest thing we could do to dramatically reduce the number of children abused in nursery settings would be to stop men from working there.

Yeah I would like to have safeguards and policies in place (that are implemented and followed) so that there isn’t an opportunity for anyone to abuse or kill a child. Excluding men isn’t enough. That’s what I’m saying.

BundleBoogie · 22/12/2025 12:28

EatYourDamnPie · 22/12/2025 09:55

Sadly not. At least 3 female nursery workers (I stopped looking as it’s fucking awful)were jailed last year for abusing children , one of them convicted of manslaughter as the baby sadly died.

But as approx 97% of nursery workers are female, 3 abusers is a tiny proportion of the total.

Obviously ANY is unacceptable but a quick google shows that the number of male abusers is already significantly higher despite being only approx 3% of the workforce. Those odds are terrible for children.

We know we can’t eliminate all risk but we can reduce it in very specific ways.

BundleBoogie · 22/12/2025 12:32

Elisheva · 22/12/2025 09:02

A thing I find telling is men’s attitudes to men who work in nurseries. There was a male worker at ds’s preschool and my dh wasn’t happy about it at all, and did not want him involved with changing/toileting ds. And our male friends all agreed with him when it came up in conversation.
I understand that it could be entrenched gender roles, but they’re not looking down on the men who want to work with very young children, they are suspicious of them. They are definitely not campaigning for them.

This is a good point. Good men know what other men are capable of and are sometimes aware of their intentions. The only people trying to push for more men looking after vulnerable children are the mind blowingly misguided women who are conditioned to prioritise men at all times and bad men.

See pp upthread for examples.

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 22/12/2025 16:04

BundleBoogie · 22/12/2025 12:32

This is a good point. Good men know what other men are capable of and are sometimes aware of their intentions. The only people trying to push for more men looking after vulnerable children are the mind blowingly misguided women who are conditioned to prioritise men at all times and bad men.

See pp upthread for examples.

A third motive: a principled belief that men should pull their weight with childcare. I used to hold that belief. It disintegrated on contact with the understanding that, per hour of contact time, the biggest abuse risk to a child is a man other than the child's father.

I still hold that fathers should pull their weight with their own kids.