Interesting what happened when an Ozzy MP wanted to discuss banning the burka

[happydappy2]

https://x.com/PaulineHansonOz/status/1992886488300966251?s=20

She has a point-can women wearing a burka be employed or will they be reliant on the state? (or someone else.) How does a full face covering work with facial recognition cameras? Can a woman in a burka enter a bank, when everyone else has to remove face coverings?

I imagine this is a question the UK needs to address pretty soon as well.

You seem to be contradicting yourself - are young girls near you wearing burqa or not? The face covering that Hanson is talking about banning, as opposed to a headscarf.

@Grammarnut seems equally confused.

I don't have one, as I've already said. And I don't need one in order to be able to say that a burqua ban is a poor idea for all the reasons I've stated.

Please don't pretend you care about women and girls when you are happy to accept the risk of serious harm to them in order to ban religious face coverings. It doesn't ring true that your reason for wanting a ban is to protect women and girls, when your "solution" causes them further harm. Of course it's already illegal to imprison people, but most of us want to make it harder for criminals to commit those crimes and want to protect victims. Not hand them victims on a platter.

Not confused at all thanks. Hence the clarification.

I see many more face covered women now. As I'm sure you rtft you will note the comment about a yr6 girl with face covered at school, it has been claimed on another thread that a poster's UK school had girls attending in burqas. I queried at the time because I know the difference between a burqa and a hijab. hth

I agree, I live in an area of London which has a large Muslim population, and has had that population for a long time. Forty years ago while most Muslim women wore hijab, very few wore niqab, and those who did tended to be older women. Now wearing niqab is far more common, and it is often worn by young women, who by their accents are London born. I don’t know if they are choosing to wear it, or are under family pressure to do so, but I do believe that it is a trend that is socially diverting and frankly it worries me that so many UK born young Muslim women are choosing/being encouraged to isolate themselves from mainstream society. I don’t know if this is a response to racism, or religious pressure but either way, it is not a healthy indicator for a cohesive society.

I’ve got no idea who she is. I’m not claiming I’ve ever heard of her but I do know that many people use the ‘racist’ accusation to silence people saying uncomfortable but necessary things. I don’t think a civilised society should allow women to be subjugated and hidden.

People may argue that some women choose to wear the burqa but while Muslim women are murdered for not wearing them, I don’t believe it is truly a free choice even if it is framed as such.

Exactly. It makes me think of boiling the frog slowly. A series of tiny steps, all in the same direction which culminate in women having their human rights removed.

Covering women’s faces in public is not for the benefit of the women.

Well I’m using the racist accusation here because it’s true.

If you want to post something advocating for women’s rights, go ahead. Make your argument. But it just makes you look click-baity and lazy when you use Pauline Hanson to make your point. An advocate for women, she is not. Do you even know what point she was trying to make by wearing what she wore?

I read an article recently saying that a lot of young women in Germany are coming under pressure from their communities to wear more restrictive dress too.

But it just makes you look click-baity and lazy when you use Pauline Hanson to make your point.

i have no idea what you are on about. I was asking a relevant question because i have no idea who she is and have observed the ‘racist’ accusation being used to silence women repeatedly.

If you want to post something advocating for women’s rights, go ahead.
I just did - you seem to have missed it.

I don’t think a civilised society should allow women to be subjugated and hidden.
People may argue that some women choose to wear the burqa but while Muslim women are murdered for not wearing them, I don’t believe it is truly a free choice even if it is framed as such.

I think this is the only thing that is fair.

If you just ban women from wearing religious face coverings it would be incredibly misogynistic.

You don't liberate women by dictating to them what they can or can't wear. The only thing you are doing is changing the oppressor.

40 years ago one hardly saw anyone wearing the hijab (in London). Now it's everywhere. I would prefer if all religious dress were just banned and everyone kept their religion private and in their synagogues, mosques, temples and churches. No clapping and singing in the streets, no public proselytising, no religious banners.

How would it be implemented? Who knows, we'd find a way.

YY, I’m very torn, but I agree with this.

One unfortunate “side effect” of the popularity of the burka is that it implies that those women who don’t cover up are seen as loose-living or worse by the men who insist on the dress for their womenfolk. So it’s not simply a case of live and let live; it is damaging to the perception of women in this country by a growing demographic.

Another issue is a tranche of women who cannot participate in society, eg are unable to perform jury service. Or in fact work in a lot of places. They are effectively segregated.

Tbf, chaviness isn't a religion.

Neither is snobbery, to be fair.

Where there are women wearing burkhas there are men subjugating them

I'm always amazed that the Sikhs I work with don't have to wear hard hats onsite. Don't get me wrong, I love Sikhs in general. Have worked for two Sikh run businesses and they genuinely treated me like family, but H&S is H&S and a breeze block falling from two stories up doesn't care about your religious beliefs.

Agree that this is crazy 👆personal safety should be above every other consideration

This is an irrelevant question in the UK as our authorities have shown again and again that they are scared of militant muslim men from Salman Rushdie affair to Batley and the men parading in London threatening to rape the Jews. So the police would just turn a blind eye. This is partly where the belief that there's two tier policing comes from.

Well I am actually not ok with men going round covered from head to foot either, so it's not just about women, it's about our expectations as a society.

Several Muslim countries have banned the burkha for security reasons. So it's not 'anti Islam' either.

If women are 'choosing' to do this, all by themselves, no pressure from the men, then surely the men in their lives (should a ban be invoked) would be saying ' you really don't need to be wearing that'.

But yet, here are all the concerns that women won't be allowed out of the house.

Speaks volumes.

But a civil society should not be enabling those who oppress women by expecting them to be covered.

We need to look at how we can ban full face coverings (while allowing medical masks). It may be a little tricky but it is not healthy for us to keep capitulating to a minority religion who are determined to change many aspects of our society. Face coverings, banning dogs in public areas, forced marriage, first cousin marriage - all of these things are bad for our society - we mustn’t be scared to say a firm NO.

Yes, I can’t remember where it was made but there actually a tv advert that effectively gave the green light to men to sexually harass women not fully covering themselves. That’s not great for the majority of women.