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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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The managed silence of women in politics

145 replies

IwantToRetire · 18/11/2025 20:14

None of this needs a censor’s red pen. It takes venue policies, “values” statements and security theatre – and a legal climate ambiguous enough to chill – to make people police themselves. That’s how self-censorship becomes the house style.

You don’t need prohibitions when you have process. Venue terms. HR protocols. “Dignity at work” rules stretched past their purpose. Security assessments that become vetoes in all but name.

Layer in legal fog – see the Hate Crime and Public Order (Scotland) Act, with its elastic definitions of “abusive” speech – and the effect is predictable: people trim sentences, swerve topics, decline invitations, and ladle on caveats until the point collapses.

Result: careful words, careful silences, careful disengagement. The oxygen leaks out of debate and everyone learns to breathe shallowly.

... watch where the stage literally disappears – where apologies are issued for a guest’s presence, and “security” is the pretext for cancellation. It clusters around women who speak plainly on sex and gender, or whose faith informs their politics.

For years they were told to take up space. Now the instruction is different: mind your tone, moderate your beliefs, make yourself smaller. That’s not equality; it’s an equal-opportunities gag.
Hard censorship is obvious: a cancelled event, a withdrawn platform, a disciplinary.

Soft censorship is subtler and more corrosive: “we can’t support the impact of hosting you”; “let’s not distract from priorities”; “for unity, could you not raise this now?” None of those measures bans content. All shrink the space where women can contribute. ...

Continues at https://thinkscotland.org/2025/11/censorship-with-paperwork-the-managed-silence-of-women-in-politics/

The managed silence of women in politics

Our choice is simple: accept a shrinking space for speech, or widen the doorway and bring the arguments back into daylight.

https://thinkscotland.org/2025/11/censorship-with-paperwork-the-managed-silence-of-women-in-politics/

OP posts:
CohensDiamondTeeth · 19/11/2025 08:03

Shedmistress · 19/11/2025 07:47

You are talking utter gobbledegook.

No man exists with any 'psychological cultural and behavioural associations' to any woman. Putting sparkly nail varnish on doesn't bestow 'associations' on to men.

Even with no words in which to circular argue your point whatever that is, two classes of human exist. One designed around large gametes and one designed around small gametes.

Even if there was no word for 'ejaculator', not one person who ever ejaculated sperm could ever also produce an egg and carry it to term. No amount of 'original thought' makes this a reality.

Calling women "Cis", and saying some men are the same as women for whatever reason is obviously just derail bait, with the intention to annoy. As well as being completely, laughably wrong, it is as transparent as glass.

I think our posts are being run through an Ai that's been fed on a diet of an anti-feminist narrative , and TRA talking points. I think it would explain the tone, italics, and some of the content of the posts. I also can't imagine anyone actually spending half as much time or giving a fraction of the actual thought to writing those posts, as we do in our replies, which is also a good tactic if you want to run down the thread and exhaust the posters attempting to engage in good faith, or reply with sense to illogical, word salad-y guff.

I've found it sort of interesting how TRA's have appropriated our language in every way possible. From the words we use to describe our sex, to the words we have used in our arguments against TRA nonsense. TRA's are known for their use of circular arguments, but here we have DARVO in action yet again.

I'm not the only one to have made the link between TRA tactics and abuse tactics. Tactics which many of us women here are familiar with, which is one of the many reasons feminists here spotted the issues with the ideology so quickly.

Shedmistress · 19/11/2025 08:07

Howseitgoin · 19/11/2025 07:51

And you are 'derailing'. Perhaps start up a thread on 'there are only two sexes' …we've never heard that one before….

You derail everything and then when anyone remotely writes word that are actual facts, you accuse them of derailing making yourself out to be the victim in it all.

It's like you swallowed the Little Book of Darvo.

It is the very essence of 'silencing women' who type words that are true.

But anyway back to you. Can't have a sentence that doesn't include you.

CohensDiamondTeeth · 19/11/2025 08:09

"It's like you swallowed the Little Book of Darvo."

😂😂😂

Funny and true!

RedToothBrush · 19/11/2025 08:10

Howseitgoin · 19/11/2025 01:29

"If a poster routinely posts provable bollocks, their expectation that they should be taken seriously, won't be matched by those reading said bollocks.
If a poster doesn't want to be challenged for posting provable bollocks, they have alternative opportunities on forums which are all about belief."

The issue isn't whether posters 'deserve' to be taken seriously or 'deserve' not to be challenged. The issue is a concerted group effort to silence them & silence any one who want's to engage with them.

"MN remains somewhere which values evidence based biology and science. This isn't controversial. It's the foundation of liberal democracy.
MN is just about the only place on the entire internet which centres the interests of biological women. Men dominate the rest of it. God forbid women are allowed to speak for themselves about themselves without criticism by males."

The feminism forum on MN is specifically titled:

"Feminism: Sex & Gender discussions"
"A feminism forum for sex and gender discussions, feminist chat, theory and intersectional feminism."

So you appear to be confused as to the nature & scope of relevant discussion that this forum has allowed for.

"MN is just about the only place on the entire internet which centres the interests of biological women. Men dominate the rest of it. God forbid women are allowed to speak for themselves about themselves without criticism by males."

And yet GC posters silence women with different points of view on the matter.

"Women on a women's forum speaking about women's rights on the feminist section and having the nerve to centre women is not silencing men come along purely to who say 'but what about the men?'!
They just aren't pandering to the men and putting the men first in about the only time and space they are free of being viewed only as support humans to males."

Some women would accurately argue that GC ideology is counterproductive to women's rights. The premise underlying Feminism has historically rejected biological essentialism as it limits women's opportunities.

You conveniently ignore trans men in all this 'man centring' ruse which smells exactly like refusing a seat at the table to female bodied people. Wasn't that supposed to be what feminism was against?

Edited

A "This a forum about dogs."
B "I want to talk about cats"
A "The cat forum is ilovecats.com. We are ilovedogs.com"
B "But I don't like dogs"
A "We're not cat ladies here I'm afraid."
B "Catphobes"
A "No we just prefer dogs and talk about things from the dogs pov."
B "You hate cats"
A "Not really I don't. I just prefer dogs". You could always create your own cat forum".

KateShugakIsALegend · 19/11/2025 08:10

I like the author's suggestions:

  1. Venue neutrality for lawful debate. Especially where public money is involved, events should be policed to proceed, not pre-emptively apologised for.
  1. Clear guiderails. Ministers should state, in black and white, how the hate-crime regime interacts with political speech and how frivolous complaints will be handled. Ambiguity fuels self-censorship; clarity widens the room.
  1. Party tolerance for conscience. Representation isn’t chorus work. If a member argues – in good faith – on sex, gender or belief, treat it as debate, not contamination.
  1. A civic norm: argue, don’t ostracise. Media bookers, arts bodies, universities and councils should recommit to hosting disagreement. Inclusion should mean more speech, not fewer voices.
ArabellaSaurus · 19/11/2025 08:10

In response to the OP:

In all honesty, the chilling of speech is a side effect of a pernicious, deletorious, authoritarian administration.

The Scottish Government is that administration. I'm not sure how we go about changing it, tbh, but I think it goes way beyond what the article suggests.

'Ministers should state, in black and white, how the hate-crime regime interacts with political speech and how frivolous complaints will be handled'

I mean, great, but when have ministers ever responded to the people of Scotland? They blatantly don't give a fuck. They don't even pretend anymore.

'Media bookers, arts bodies, universities and councils should recommit to hosting disagreement.'

Sure. But again, fish rot from the head down, and we've been ruled (not served; ruled) by a government that is still currently under investigation for fraud and embezzlement and was likely guilty of far worse.

borntobequiet · 19/11/2025 08:12

CohensDiamondTeeth · 19/11/2025 08:03

Calling women "Cis", and saying some men are the same as women for whatever reason is obviously just derail bait, with the intention to annoy. As well as being completely, laughably wrong, it is as transparent as glass.

I think our posts are being run through an Ai that's been fed on a diet of an anti-feminist narrative , and TRA talking points. I think it would explain the tone, italics, and some of the content of the posts. I also can't imagine anyone actually spending half as much time or giving a fraction of the actual thought to writing those posts, as we do in our replies, which is also a good tactic if you want to run down the thread and exhaust the posters attempting to engage in good faith, or reply with sense to illogical, word salad-y guff.

I've found it sort of interesting how TRA's have appropriated our language in every way possible. From the words we use to describe our sex, to the words we have used in our arguments against TRA nonsense. TRA's are known for their use of circular arguments, but here we have DARVO in action yet again.

I'm not the only one to have made the link between TRA tactics and abuse tactics. Tactics which many of us women here are familiar with, which is one of the many reasons feminists here spotted the issues with the ideology so quickly.

I've found it sort of interesting how TRA's have appropriated our language in every way possible. From the words we use to describe our sex, to the words we have used in our arguments against TRA nonsense. TRA's are known for their use of circular arguments, but here we have DARVO in action yet again.

Yes indeed.

I noticed that someone used the word “lacuna” upthread, an excellent word that you don’t often see - I wondered when it would be appropriated by a visitor and was going to keep an eye out for it. The term “circular reasoning” has, I think, been fairly recently appropriated, with never a hint of irony or self-awareness.

Howseitgoin · 19/11/2025 08:16

Shedmistress · 19/11/2025 08:07

You derail everything and then when anyone remotely writes word that are actual facts, you accuse them of derailing making yourself out to be the victim in it all.

It's like you swallowed the Little Book of Darvo.

It is the very essence of 'silencing women' who type words that are true.

But anyway back to you. Can't have a sentence that doesn't include you.

So lemme get this straight, I'm "derailing" & "silencing" by clarifying erroneous views & when I explain the source of the derailing which is the erroneous view I'm playing the victim?

Oh lord….🤪

borntobequiet · 19/11/2025 08:22

It’s also interesting to see which threads are visited and which not. You can’t trot out endless, repetitive drivel on, for example, the employment tribunal threads, because that would involve some actual knowledge and engagement with reality.

KaleidoscopeSmile · 19/11/2025 08:25

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

RedToothBrush · 19/11/2025 08:27

A "This a forum about dogs."
B "I want to talk about cats"
A "The cat forum is ilovecats.com. We are ilovedogs.com"
B "But I don't like dogs"
A "We're not cat ladies here I'm afraid."
B "Catphobes"
A "No we just prefer dogs and talk about things from the dogs pov."
B "You hate cats"
A "Not really I don't. I just prefer dogs". You could always create your own cat forum".
B "But you don't talk about whippets. They are cat like in many respects. If you liked cats you'd talk about whippets"
A "Whippets are dogs. We talk about dogs. We do sometimes talk about whippets which you won't acknowledge. We don't have to talk about whippets cat like qualities"
B "You invalidate the cat like qualities in whippets".
A "They are dogs not cats".
B "You are trying to shut me out the conversation and silence me".
A "We are talking to you whilst trying to talk about dogs"
B "But cats...."

Rinse and repeat.

ErrolTheDragon · 19/11/2025 08:29

People having the right to say things is not the right to force everyone everywhere to hear them & that applies universally.

good point. People can say all sorts of stuff and we don’t have to engage with them. It’s a curse of social media that we often forget this.

Anyway… this thread is specifically about the self censorship of women in politics. Which of course doesn’t remotely imply other people don’t self censor - I think most of us are only too well aware of doing so.
It’s a good piece, OP, thanks for posting it. What I’m not sure of is how in practice change can occur?

Shedmistress · 19/11/2025 08:31

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Absolutely, I'd love an ignore button like they had on MSE.

But when someone repeatedly makes completely bizarre inferences and starts tying people not attuned to the practices up in the wall of italicised Gish Gallop, you want to jump in but it really isn't worth it.

ArabellaSaurus · 19/11/2025 08:31

ErrolTheDragon · 19/11/2025 08:29

People having the right to say things is not the right to force everyone everywhere to hear them & that applies universally.

good point. People can say all sorts of stuff and we don’t have to engage with them. It’s a curse of social media that we often forget this.

Anyway… this thread is specifically about the self censorship of women in politics. Which of course doesn’t remotely imply other people don’t self censor - I think most of us are only too well aware of doing so.
It’s a good piece, OP, thanks for posting it. What I’m not sure of is how in practice change can occur?

We need rid of the current government.

Unfortunately, there is no viable alternative at the moment.

CohensDiamondTeeth · 19/11/2025 08:34

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

I don't mean to tone police, but he's a person not an it. I'm not exactly a fan of TRAs, or this particular poster, but dehumanising people doesn't help anyone long term I don't think.

But yes, it would make more sense to not keep responding to him, he'll be away shortly though, and normal discussion can resume... for a while at least.

ErrolTheDragon · 19/11/2025 08:35

ArabellaSaurus · 19/11/2025 08:31

We need rid of the current government.

Unfortunately, there is no viable alternative at the moment.

do you mean specifically in Scotland?

Shedmistress · 19/11/2025 08:39

CohensDiamondTeeth · 19/11/2025 08:34

I don't mean to tone police, but he's a person not an it. I'm not exactly a fan of TRAs, or this particular poster, but dehumanising people doesn't help anyone long term I don't think.

But yes, it would make more sense to not keep responding to him, he'll be away shortly though, and normal discussion can resume... for a while at least.

I took 'it' as being 'the continual derailment with italics and smiley faces that try to make out the words that were typed were typed by someone so crazy that they stick their tongue out and have a head tilt'. Gosh, such crazy. With an italic of course, what's a sentence without an italic these days.

ArabellaSaurus · 19/11/2025 08:40

ErrolTheDragon · 19/11/2025 08:35

do you mean specifically in Scotland?

Yes. Although there's possibly a similar issue at WM.

KaleidoscopeSmile · 19/11/2025 08:40

CohensDiamondTeeth · 19/11/2025 08:34

I don't mean to tone police, but he's a person not an it. I'm not exactly a fan of TRAs, or this particular poster, but dehumanising people doesn't help anyone long term I don't think.

But yes, it would make more sense to not keep responding to him, he'll be away shortly though, and normal discussion can resume... for a while at least.

I was talking about the content of the posts ta.

TheaBrandt1 · 19/11/2025 08:41

What a great article. I have had to self censor my views on this for years. When I meet up with old friends sometimes they tentatively raise the issue (I never do) and the relief when we realise we are all sex realist women is real. We properly relax. There’s an underground feel to it. Incredible this has been allowed to happen.

Shedmistress · 19/11/2025 08:42

ArabellaSaurus · 19/11/2025 08:31

We need rid of the current government.

Unfortunately, there is no viable alternative at the moment.

I don't think any other government will crack this nut. It is endemic and until the whole agenda is seen as the least cool thing since Cliff Richard style Slacks on Sale in the Asdas it will still be underpinning the whole behemoth of corporate and constitutional life.

ArabellaSaurus · 19/11/2025 08:42

I have in mind the current farce of the Scotgov recalcitrance regarding 1. Men in prisons and 2. The SC judgement overall.

Women had to take our own government to fucking COURT to get them to acknowledge our rights - and they still refuse to do the right, legal, honourable, sensible thing.

What nexr?

Shedmistress · 19/11/2025 08:43

And the Scottish government haven't paid their dues, hoping to bankrupt FWS before they are made to do so.

ArabellaSaurus · 19/11/2025 08:44

Shedmistress · 19/11/2025 08:42

I don't think any other government will crack this nut. It is endemic and until the whole agenda is seen as the least cool thing since Cliff Richard style Slacks on Sale in the Asdas it will still be underpinning the whole behemoth of corporate and constitutional life.

We are surely way past that point, and well ontae a scabby tarp at the Barras?

CohensDiamondTeeth · 19/11/2025 08:44

KaleidoscopeSmile · 19/11/2025 08:40

I was talking about the content of the posts ta.

I got the wrong end of the stick, sorry! Flowers