Do you think the term "Gender Critical" is why some people won't engage?

[Brefugee]

What i mean is, "gender critical" must put the backs up of people who are on the fence or are already some level of TRA? Because it sounds "critical" and that has negative connotations.

Do you think that if we'd adopted the term "sex realist" it might have worked a bit more in our favour? Especially with people who don't spend any time at all in this "discussion"?

I was thinking about it while perusing this article

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/media/article/bbc-trans-ideology-childrens-programmes-chq292hfz

http://archive.today/iDMMq
(archive link)

Maybe the minions at the BBC would feel more able to engage in a proper discussion about all this if they didn't hear "gender critical" but "sex realist"?

This was quite mainstream, wasn't it? Just thinking about how it's not that well-known these days.

Just to add to the general point of the thread that many people confuse the context of the word "critical" as in critical analysis, critical thinking - instead thinking it simply means "to find fault". Similar to the "radical" feminism confusion - meaning roots, not extremism.

Yes, never found the term helpful

also, as soon as it’s labelled it became a position to oppose

it didn’t need a label

A lot of people I know don't know what GC means but if you ask them if men should be allowed to compete in women's sporting category's because they 'identify' as women, they all say NO.

I prefer BioFeminist, it's a term coined by the gender zealots to lob at Emma Hilton in an effort to dismiss the research she's done that shows males have a physical advantage over females in sport no matter what.

From the post I read she thought, as an insult, it was hilarious, so I've decided to adopt it too. 😁

Toilets. It's always toilets.

(And the concept of third spaces have been suggested and discussed here infinite times, and rejected by TRA's as 'transphobic and othering')

What about -

Rape crisis services
Domestic abuse refuges
Prisons
Hospital wards
Sleeping accommodations

Despite the actual instances of female prisoners being housed with violent male sex offenders, women being housed in domestic abuse refuges with males who walk around naked, rape survivors being harmed by the organisations meant to help them and women being raped on hospital wards with the hospital outright lying to the Police that there were 'no men here'.

And this isn't Twitter or Reddit. You can't demand that other posters don't @ you.

Again, it's 50% of the population. Not 0.5%. And the rights of women have a meaningful effect on 100% of women, which if you were one you would know.

You're not paying attention if you think it isn't growing. It has seen a MASSIVE increase in the last year alone as people are waking up to what your sex is doing to womens rights. Fucking massive increase.

Ummm.... Trump was elected on this issue alone. Even the Democrats own internal polling focus group - Blueprint2024, found that trans issues were the THIRD reason for people voting for Trump. Trumps wise and calculated ad paid off dividends. How can you continue to get it so spectacularly WRONG.

Males (not 'transwomen') in female spaces affects affect single female who leaves the house. Every....single...one. Not every female requires an abortion or works. But every woman has to leave the house sometime. Whether to do food shopping or go to a doctors appointment.

dom/sexual violence

Males in female spaces increases this.

mental health

Made worse by women having to self-exclude from society because of no safe facility.

rising misogyny

Males colonising all female safe spaces is PEAK MISOGYNY.

'trans' panic

More evidence you have no idea. It is not 'trans' panic. It is MALE panic. You don't get to relabel men a 'trans' and think it makes it "different".

They always forget that big chunk of the population don’t they? It’s only special men that matter as per usual.

Probably because it rams it home easier. Every single woman on earth needs to use a toilet.

Not every woman needs a woman shelter or prison or rape service. A lot of women can't relate to that. They cannot imagine or 'place' themselves in that situation so find it easy to gloss over and ignore, thinking it'll 'never happen to them'. But toilets? Every single woman relates to that. Which is why it's the preferred tool and point of communication.

The term 'gender critical' came about because of the Forstater Case, as it had to be argued in court that it was a belief that humans cannot change sex even though as we all know, it isn't a belief it is a fact.

I don't use 'gender critical' because I use the term 'normal'. It is perfectly normal to know that there are only two sexes and this is fixed at conception. Everybody knows this.

But if I was in employment and someone reported me for normal thoughts, I'd be quoting the Forstater Judgement and WORIADS to HR as it set a legal precedent in the workplace.

Just use normal. Use the words we all know. Don't get hung up on what to call ourselves as we are all just boring old normal people who know facts. Men women boys girls. Don't use their language or get into arguments. Facts are facts. And knowing them is WORIADS.

If there was any widespread publicity in 2010 that claimed the EA now gave some men the right to use women's toilets, I missed it. From the perspective of 'the masses', the former misinterpretation of the EA has either gone under their radar, it would have simply never occurred that rights would be based on assumed 'gender' rather than actual sex; or it's been a boiling frog, with people's tolerance of TI pushed further and further.
Had the SC judgment not turned the tide, there is no way of knowing how the majority of people who don't believe TW are women would have responded, as the consequences spread to the consciousness of more and more people.

With no disrespect meant (and I honestly mean this), I think people just don’t engage as they have bigger worries- money, health, relationships.

Until you've been in a position to see the horror face to face, I think most people just don't want to get involved.

It is interesting when people come in here and be all 'I've only ever met 2 trans people in my life and they were fine' when I've know people who say they are the opposite sex since the flipping late 80s [first encounter was around 1988/89 in my very first job] and every single person I've ever met who says they are the opposite sex has either a fetish or some very deep seated mental health issues.

I don’t actually use any of the terms, except on here. I’m probably a MERF, if I had to wear a badge. Like most of us I have nothing against individual trans people, though the gender ideology itself is a dangerous pile of horse shit. I object massively to badly behaving men and badly behaving parents.

I don’t think we need the labels to describe the issues, as a PP says, we’re just ‘normal’. No one actually believes sex can be changed. Well, no one with a brain that has considered it. We’ve all seen the men who like think they’ve changed and clearly haven’t.

Women rights matter, and women matter. Nothing that attacks either can go unchallenged.

Just use normal

I don't think me declaring myself to be "normal" would be very honest of me....

I agree, I'd also add that every man can also relate to it because the father's are not happy knowing their daughters have to share toilets/changing rooms with mentally unbalance males.

The toilet issue gets the message over to both sexes which is why the GI zealots keep trying to ridicule the argument and dismiss it as 'trans' panic.

The preferred tool and point of communication for whom?

Any deliberate focusing on toilets as a preferred communication tool has just led to the 'you can pee next to me!!' t-shirts. And the ridiculous shrieking about genital inspections.

Whereas questions about circumstances which are clear cut are much less easy for the 'be kinders' to squirm away from. It's considerably harder to argue that men should be housed in prisons with women. Or to argue to women should not be allowed to request a female Forensic Medical Examiner after their rape.

And I really can't get the whole 'well I can't imagine myself as ever being in prison/having to use a domestic abuse refuge etc etc so who gives a fuck, right?' mindset. That kind of mindset borders on the sociopathic - that lack of empathy. That 'I'm good so who gives a fuck about anyone else' way of thinking.

Have you met the human race?

It's default setting is 'I'm alright Jack', quite a few of the comments posted on most of the threads show that a lot of people don't give any thought to women in prison or domestic abuse centre's etc.

I think the term gender critical is negative rather than positive and accepts the premise of gender as being the norm which a minority criticise. That’s how it sounds to me anyway.
I say I am a sex realist.

I think the embracing of TI by the political left and of the GC position by the right has also been problematic.
There are people with a life long commitment to social justice, and/or who need the policies of a left wing government to improve their lives, who have suddenly found themselves out of step on this issue.
The second group will be wondering which scares them the most, a right wing government or the occasional man in the women's toilets. The first group may venture in but may be alienated by the views of some allies. For example, it's not uncommon to see GC views accompanied by strong opposition to EDI in general (very apparant on this forum in the wake of Charlie Kirks death) and people may worry that opposing 'inclusion' on this issue opens the floodgates to losing it when it comes to race, disability and class.
I think the problem of the association with the right tends to be swept under the carpet by statements about not being a hive mind, or personal views that this issue is sufficiently important to hold our noses with regards to views of GC allies.

No hatred towards men who identify as not men. We just want them to stay out of our single sex spaces and categories. As a PP said third spaces have been offered but have been rejected by men who identify as not men. It is absolutely your choice to use term "trans woman" and it absolutely my right to refer to a biological man as a biological man. Language is important and these men are in no way shape or form women.

Opposition to EDI, or to the EDI industry?
I know a lot of people who are opposed to the phenomenal waste of time money and effort of EDI departments and initiatives that do fuck all to support people with disabilities or other barriers to inclusion, but throw money at badges and lanyards and letting men change with women. That is what I have an issue with.