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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

UK transwoman suing because Irish citizenship not recognised for his child.

79 replies

BruachAbhann · 12/11/2025 13:40

I can't believe we've gotten to this state where a newspaper is referring to 'her sperm'!
Basically, a UK man who has transitioned to transwoman used his frozen sperm to impregnate his female partner (who doesn't have Irish citizenship). He is now suing because the baby is not being recognised as an Irish citizen. He has Irish citizenship but does not want to be registered as the 'father'.

'The woman - who has Irish citizenship while her wife does not - submits that if she has to claim to be the "father" of the child as part of the application, it would be an "offensive, discriminatory and unjust attack" on her person, gender identity and legal status.'

It's so confusing reading the article as the trans woman is being referred to as a 'woman' and 'she' but 'her sperm' really takes the biscuit.

Hopefully, this case might force the Irish government to decide whether biology matters!

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/trans-woman-who-used-her-sperm-to-have-baby-with-wife-challenges-irish-citizenship-refusal-for-child/a1333201313.html?errorCode=0

Content below.
A UK transgender woman, who used her frozen sperm to have a baby with her wife, has been granted permission to bring a High Court challenge against a refusal to grant Irish citizenship to the child on the basis that she is not the biological mother.
The woman - who has Irish citizenship while her wife does not - submits that if she has to claim to be the "father" of the child as part of the application, it would be an "offensive, discriminatory and unjust attack" on her person, gender identity and legal status.
At the High Court this week, the woman was granted leave to challenge a refusal by the State, which does not recognise her as the birth mother, to enter the child on the Foreign Births Register.
The case is being taken by the child through the woman against the Minister for Foreign Affairs, the Attorney General and Ireland.
The woman is seeking a declaration from the High Court that she is legally and genetically a parent of the child.
She is also seeking an order compelling the State to register the child on the Foreign Births Register and for the child to be granted citizenship under Section 7 (1) of the Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act, 1956.

Persons born outside of Ireland who have an Irish national grandparent born in Ireland may obtain Irish citizenship through registration with the Foreign Births Register, which is maintained by the Department of Foreign Affairs.
In submissions to the High Court the woman, who was born male, states that she is a UK resident but with Irish citizenship through her own lineage.
The submissions state that the woman had stored sperm with a UK fertility clinic, intending it to be used at a future date. She changed her name and transitioned from a man to a woman under UK law, receiving a UK gender recognition certificate.
The woman married her female partner and frozen sperm was then used to have a baby with her wife by an IVF procedure at a UK clinic.
The woman says she fears any UK withdrawal from the European Convention on Human Rights would mean her family could lose its protections and status in that country.

It is submitted by the woman that her child was refused entry into the foreign births registry - thereby denying Irish citizenship - as the woman was not the biological mother of the child and because her wife, who gave birth to the child, was not an Irish citizen.
The woman submitted that the Department of Foreign Affairs informed her that "under Irish law, as applied to date, the mother of the child is the woman who gives birth to the child and therefore the child would derive their citizenship through that mother".
It is claimed by the woman the department's position is that, because she is not the biological mother of the child, she therefore does not meet the requirement of an Irish citizen parent and the application cannot proceed.
The woman further submits that she could have claimed to be the "father" of the child and "could have possibly obtained citizenship by descent that way". "I feel it would invalidate me as a trans woman, invalidate my legal status as a woman and invalidate my same-sex marriage," she said.
The woman submits that if she had to claim to be the "father" of the child, it would be an "offensive, discriminatory and unjust attack" on her person, gender identity, legal status and on same-sex marriage.
The woman also submits this would also be an unjust attack "on the State's obligation to protect the family as the natural and fundamental unit group of society".
Ms Justice Sara Phelan granted the woman leave for judicial review of the matter and adjourned the case to January.

Trans woman who used her sperm to have baby with wife challenges Irish citizenship refusal for child

A UK transgender woman, who used her frozen sperm to have a baby with her wife, has been granted permission to bring a High Court challenge against a refusal to grant Irish citizenship to the child on the basis that she is not the biological mother.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/trans-woman-who-used-her-sperm-to-have-baby-with-wife-challenges-irish-citizenship-refusal-for-child/a1333201313.html?errorCode=0

OP posts:
BruachAbhann · 16/11/2025 14:04

MarieDeGournay · 16/11/2025 11:09

AnSolas · 13/11/2025 10:21
The Irish GRA creates a clear split in the meaning between "sex" and "gender" as the two words are used in a way that indicates they are two different concepts in that act.
Sex being biology and
Gender being a way to live.

Thanks, An Solas, I wasn't aware that 'they' [Irish parliament] had actually got around to giving a clear definition of 'gender' before they waved the GRA through with absolutely NOBODY raising any objections to it - sorry that's not accurate: there were some criticisms that the GRA didn't go far enough as it didn't cover 'trans' children..

It would be wonderful if a case could be brought to the High Court [our equiv of UK Supreme Court] to test the meaning of sex and gender in Irish legislation.
I don't see it happening. Having lived for a long time in the UK, I am constantly reminded about the importance of scale - in a country with 70 million people there's the possibility of various 'flavours' of feminist groups including gender critical feminists like FWS; the existence of 'LGBTQI+++++' but also of the LGB Alliance, etc etc.

In a country of 5m people, if you scale that down, groups like GC feminists or the Irish LGBA are going to be very small, and poorly resourced - keen, motivated, active and enthusiastic, fair play to them, but that won't butter any legal parsnips, so to speak..

I just don't see the necessary critical mass of GC feminism in Ireland to take on the GRA as FWS did in the UK.

If there is a challenge, I think it's more likely to be from ultra-conservatives, in which case us Irish GC feminists will be force-teamed with what is described as 'the far right'.

That all sounds very depressing😟
I think seeing serious journos in Ireland being forced to write and speak words like 'her frozen sperm' 'her wife gave birth to her baby' as if they made any sense was very depressing.

Interesting points Marie. I'd consider myself to be centrist but someone who is far left would probably think I'm far right! I'm pretty reasonable and can see different perspectives on everything. I do wonder if people are being tarred with the 'far-right' label as a way of dismissing what they are saying. Another way of having no debate and being told we're not being kind enough.
The blue haired mothers in my kids school, one of whom has transed their 6 year old boy would definitely think I'm far right for example (even though I've never said anything to them about it).

OP posts:
BruachAbhann · 16/11/2025 14:06

MarieDeGournay · 16/11/2025 11:14

Bruach - I have this evil plan, which I'll probably never carry out because I have so many 'plans' that I never carry out! - of copying what current TDs [MPs] and Senators said in support of the Gender Recognition Act in 2015, sending it to them, and/or their current party leaders, and asking them if they still stand by what they said.

Spoiler alert: their universal enthusiasm for genderwoo has not stood the test of time well, and I think many of their constituents would be very unimpressed with their lack of scrutiny..

Sounds like great evil plan! :-) I've started to compile a list of all the TDs for my letter which in itself is time consuming enough. Letter is on draft 1.

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 16/11/2025 14:07

PaterPower · 16/11/2025 05:47

"I feel it would invalidate me as a trans woman, invalidate my legal status as a woman and invalidate my same-sex marriage,"

FFS. Still, I guess if you’re attempting to bend reality to your cause, you may as well go the whole hog.

It's homophobic. It's not a same sex marriage.

You can call it a same gender marriage but that's it. Cos sex and gender are not the same thing.

BruachAbhann · 16/11/2025 15:09

MarieDeGournay · 16/11/2025 12:00

I agree that TWAW didn't trickle down from the politicians to what Myles na gCopaleen called 'The Plain People of Ireland'.

I asked around some of my 'elders' and found examples of two completely non-gender-conforming people back in Days of Yore, one in Dublin and the other in rural Ireland - a man who wore makeup and was called 'Mary' by his neighbours, and a woman who only wore men's clothes, did men's work, drank pints with the men, and swore like a trooper.
They were regarded with a certain amount of pity and amusement, but nobody bothered them and nobody thought they had 'changed sex'.

I agree with you that the majority of The Plain People of Ireland - and probably a lot of their political representatives - don't believe that people can change sex.
It is evidence of the disproportionate power of the trans juggernaut that such a large majority of people daren't say that openly.

I don't think we should team up with the ultra-conservatives at all, it's just that they are more likely than us to have the ways and means of taking it to the High Court.

I also think we don't necessarily have lawyers in this country who are specialised enough in this area and willing to stick their necks out. I could be wrong but I've read about other people finding it hard to find the right representation.

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