Legal challenge in Ireland

[Brainworm]

The UK father of a child has been granted leave by the high court in Ireland to challenge being recorded as the father not another mother.

His claim seems to be centred around his child’s right to Irish citizenship. The child could get Irish citizenship through the grandparent clause, showing this is a political move rather than being about the child’s entitlement. It’ll be interesting to see how this plays out in Ireland.

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2025/1112/1543524-irish-citizenship-court/

There was a similar case in the UK in 2020
Freddie Mc Connell v v Register General for England and Wales.
The finding was that he as a transman could not be listed as the child's father on the birth cert as he had given birth to the child

As far as I can work out the child would be granted irish citizenship if the father named himself as father . The grandparent clause wouldn't need to be invoked.

So, nothing whatsoever to do with the child and all about the desire of the man to be affirmed as something he is not

So this all boils down to this person being acknowledged as a 2nd mother but not the one who gave birth and not as the father so isn't deemed a biological parent. Its an interesting one.

Yes. The child can get Irish Citizenship regardless of the case being brought forward by the father.

I remember Freddie McConnell’s case. UK law has been steadfastly clear that birth certificates record ‘mother’ as defined by the person who gave birth to the child. They can’t record 2 mothers - in line with this. They also can’t record the mother as the father, because they were the birther. Similarly, they can’t record them as ‘parent’ as this fails to denote that they were the person giving birth.

This all comes back to the farce of wanting to use ‘more inclusive language’. Whatever words are used, they need to consistently denote who is the female and who is the male (if this is to be included). It’s the record of facts that is objectionable to them.

Key issue here is this is a male parent acting on behalf of a child to get the child Irish citizenship

AND

He is acting on his own behalf to pass on citizenship by being recognised as woman.

So this will be down to the law on birth certs and citizenship application requirements.

ARTICLE 9
1 1° On the coming into operation of this Constitution any person who was a citizen of Saorstát Éireann immediately before the coming into operation of this Constitution shall become and be a citizen of Ireland.

1 2° The future acquisition and loss of Irish nationality and citizenship shall be determined in accordance with law.

1 3° No person may be excluded from Irish nationality and citizenship by reason of the sex of such person.

2 1° Notwithstanding any other provision of this Constitution, a person born in the island of Ireland, which includes its islands and seas, who does not have, at the time of the birth of that person, at least one parent who is an Irish citizen or entitled to be an Irish citizen is not entitled to Irish citizenship or nationality, unless provided for by law.

2 2° This section shall not apply to persons born before the date of the enactment of this section.

3 Fidelity to the nation and loyalty to the State are fundamental political duties of all citizens.

Catch 22
There is likely /may be a clash of rights which should result in the State step in and act on behalf of a citizen child.......
But even if the High Court judge accepts the father acting on behald of the child the HC must take account of the Childs Constitutional rights as if the child is a citizen

The father:

He is male under Irish GR legistation. So his UK GRC means nothing as they are not "recognised" and the Minister can refuse to issue an Irish GRC

https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2015/act/25/section/11/enacted/en/html#sec11

Requirements on application where recognition in another jurisdiction

11. (1) A person who has changed gender under the law of a country or territory, other than the State, may apply to the Minister for a gender recognition certificate.

If he has no GRC his childs birth certs is not covered by the GRA2015

Uk legal case should have resulted in him being registered as the father on the childs birth cert.

Woman and Mother have specific meaning under the Irish Consitution and the word sex is used in the citizenship section.

https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/cons/en/html#article41

THE FAMILY
ARTICLE 41
1 1° The State recognises the Family as the natural primary and fundamental unit group of Society, and as a moral institution possessing inalienable and imprescriptible rights, antecedent and superior to all positive law.

1 2° The State, therefore, guarantees to protect the Family in its constitution and authority, as the necessary basis of social order and as indispensable to the welfare of the Nation and the State.

2 1° In particular, the State recognises that by her life within the home, woman gives to the State a support without which the common good cannot be achieved.

2 2° The State shall, therefore, endeavour to ensure that mothers shall not be obliged by economic necessity to engage in labour to the neglect of their duties in the home.

https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/cons/en/html#article42

CHILDREN
ARTICLE 42A
1 The State recognises and affirms the natural and imprescriptible rights of all children and shall, as far as practicable, by its laws protect and vindicate those rights.

2 1° In exceptional cases, where the parents, regardless of their marital status, fail in their duty towards their children to such extent that the safety or welfare of any of their children is likely to be prejudicially affected, the State as guardian of the common good shall, by proportionate means as provided by law, endeavour to supply the place of the parents, but always with due regard for the natural and imprescriptible rights of the child.

2° Provision shall be made by law for the adoption of any child where the parents have failed for such a period of time as may be prescribed by law in their duty towards the child and where the best interests of the child so require.

3 Provision shall be made by law for the voluntary placement for adoption and the adoption of any child.

4 1° Provision shall be made by law that in the resolution of all proceedings—

i brought by the State, as guardian of the common good, for the purpose of preventing the safety and welfare of any child from being prejudicially affected, or
ii concerning the adoption, guardianship or custody of, or access to, any child,

the best interests of the child shall be the paramount consideration.

4 2° Provision shall be made by law for securing, as far as practicable, that in all proceedings referred to in subsection 1° of this section in respect of any child who is capable of forming his or her own views, the views of the child shall be ascertained and given due weight having regard to the age and maturity of the child.

This will have implications for children who have independant rights from their parents.

If the citizen father can obtain citizenship for the child under the current system he is not acting in the best interest of the child by rejecting the process he can follow to have the childs citizenship recognised.

So, to claim Irish citizenship the child must be registered on the FBR, naming two parents, at least one of whom is an Irish citizen (or has an Irish parent born in Ireland). Claimant is an Irish citizen, for whatever reason, but doesn't want to be registered as father, so the registration can't happen. The citizenship thing is irrelevant.

Surely there are no national registers that will accept registration of two same-sex parents, and that applies to IE and GB alike. The child must have been registered in GB naming claimant as father, so why is he kicking off now?

I am assuming that there has to be a way for same sex parents to register a birth as adopted children and surrogacy would come into play? But not of those laws would apply as he is father married to the childs mother at the time of the birth

This case will have wider inplications than the citizenship as the State has been issuing birth certs for adopted children and then blocking the childs access to the information about their parents birth mothers. If a child has the right to decide what data is entered into the official record that could open the door to those "children" to also take court action to void the sections of the Adoption acts.

i agree that the issue of permanently sealing original birth certificates following a parental order to amend them is unacceptable data management. Individuals should be able to access original birth certificates pertaining to themselves. It seems very wrong that they can’t make a subject access request and obtain them. Data protection principles have moved on since the days when parental order rules were introduced.

In the UK, the original registration is only sealed until the age of eighteen(for both adoption and surrogacy). Is it different in Ireland?

Oh, I got that wrong. I thought it remained sealed. Is it unsealed in all instances - surrogacy, adoption etc.

I think there might be a date cut-off for older adoptions and/or a counselling proviso, but the basic principle is one of openness.

Also, it's not laid open, just revealed to the individual concerned.

This is pulling from the Mother and baby Homes era and baby selling adpotion into the US etc and that Irish adopting parents were listed as the mother and father on a new birth record. And was mixed into the redress scheme for the Homes where the various Orders involved had to produce their files which created a "modern" data subject file held by the State

From memory the government of the day 2016ish?? passed a law which made it unlawful for support groups or individuals to help a child locate their original birth records.

And there was a change in the Consitution in 1979

https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/cons/en/html#article37

ARTICLE 37
1 Nothing in this Constitution shall operate to invalidate the exercise of limited functions and powers of a judicial nature, in matters other than criminal matters, by any person or body of persons duly authorised by law to exercise such functions and powers, notwithstanding that such person or such body of persons is not a judge or a court appointed or established as such under this Constitution.
2 No adoption of a person taking effect or expressed to take effect at any time after the coming into operation of this Constitution under laws enacted by the Oireachtas and being an adoption pursuant to an order made or an authorisation given by any person or body of persons designated by those laws to exercise such functions and powers was or shall be invalid by reason only of the fact that such person or body of persons was not a judge or a court appointed or established as such under this Constitution.

You can in Ireland, they brought it in a few years ago for donor conceived children that there can be 2 parents on the birth cert rather than mother and father and now anyone have can have 2 parents on their birth cert rather than mother and father

www.lawsociety.ie/gazette/top-stories/2020/05-may/all-new-parents-can-opt-out-of-mother-or-father-birth-cert-designation

This case makes me so angry. There's a extra layer of awfulness to it, considering the long battle so many Irish people, adopted out of Mother & Baby homes, had to go through to access their birth certificates and find out who they are - and now this selfish, selfish man wants to falsify his child's birth certificate for his own gratification. He is disgusting.

Parenthood

19. The fact that a gender recognition certificate is issued to a person shall not affect the status of the person as the father or mother of a child born prior to the date of the issue of the certificate"
This is what the GRA said about parenthood.

Presumably it wasn't envisioned that a trans man would do anything as womanly as giving birth,or a transwoman would try and claim that their sperm donation made them a mother, so no provision was made for children born after the GRC was issued.
But of course, TRA's are never satisfied with anything, they have to claim victimhood even if it alters the reality of a child's right to an accurate birth record.
If he doesn't have a Gender Recognition Certificate in Ireland I can't see how he can deny being the father. Or is his UK gender reassignment recognised as being of equal status as an Irish GRC?
A win in this case will have serious consequences for women in Ireland as being a mother will simply be an identity or a feeling in a man's head

We are assuming he's on the BC.

What if he's not and refused because he was having a tantrum at that.

It doesn't say anywhere on the article about whether he's on the BC.

Could we have a situation where a man is kicking off in the Irish court system that he's not able to be recognised as the mother on his child's UK BC (cos the law)?

It would not matter if he is on the UK BC or not.

He would have to be placed on the Irish Register as the father ( he is/was lawfully married to the mother in the UK and Ireland recognises UK marraige as valid) and there is a rebuttable presumption that all children born within the union are his.

This gives the child an Irish BC document which proves their right of citizenship.

Also as a non-citizen the mother could apply on behalf of the child using her marraige cert and the childs UK documents (she would have had a legal right in the UK to register her husband as the father without him) or the fathers DNA and her medical documents and his documents to prove fatherhood. Either option creates the childs right to be recognised as an Irish Citizen.

His issue is that the UK State will have issued the mother with documentation proof of her giving birth so the Irish State should/will register her as the mother.

Then he has to prove his relationship with his parents by submitting proof that he is their child and that they /their parent was a person with Irish citizenship

So which birth proof document is the Irish State willing to accept for him?

The original or the one which can be created on foot of a unrecognised but valid UK GRC?

Presumably there couldn't be two 'mothers' listed on the child's Irish documentation either, right? Wouldn't it have to be the birth mother as 'mother' and then him as legal parent or father? I wonder what he envisages his wife's role to be on the form.

A lot of women basked in the sunlight of their own supposed moral superiority by rushing to validate men who claimed to be women over the past 10 - 15 years.

How very progressive of them - pandering to men...

Virtue-signalling women on the one hand and narcissistic men on the other together created the perfect storm.

It has infected every aspect of society: government, justice, health & education, children's toilets/changing rooms, women only spaces, rape crisis centers, prisons, sports, scholarships, prizes, etc and the rights of gay men and lesbians who objected to the hostile takeover of their identity and their organisations by straight men with a fetish.

Women also actively supported / drove cancel culture - social exclusion being the ultimate female weapon, as we all know.

This was used expertly to silence the overwhelming majority of people, but in particular women who were brave enough to challenge the dogma and the lies.
(so everyone always knew which ones were women and which were men).

These men are insatiable narcissists, pursuing an unachievable goal.
They will never stop pushing out the boundaries.

They patronized us with "we just want to live our lives in peace" while simultaneously colonizing every single aspect of womanhood in society by stealth.

No-one can change sex - fact.

We should have told the truth from the very start instead of lying to make ourselves look better than we actually are while handing all our rights over to entitled men.