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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

New paper with language recommendations on sex and gender identity

51 replies

DrKarleenG · 31/10/2025 10:47

I have just had a paper published that argues it is time to ditch “gender” except in relation to “gender identity”. I thought some here might be interested. Summary excerpt below.
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-025-03310-3

"To facilitate clear communication, terms that clearly distinguish between sex, the social expectations of the sexes, and gender identity should be used. Here follows proposed terminology to improve clarity in relation to these concepts.
First, when referring to the reproductive categorizations of male and female, the term “sex” should be used and “gender” avoided. Furthermore, the scientific terms for the sexes of “male” and “female” should not be used to describe gender identities. This is particularly important in data collection where it is likely that many respondents will interpret questions with the answers of “male” and “female” as asking for their sex when the inquiry is intended to be in relation to gender identity (Balarajan et al., 2011). Accurate data collection on sex can be promoted by asking individuals to state their “sex as recorded at birth” or “birth sex.” Where it is necessary to define sex (e.g., in scientific, legal, or medical settings), the description should be in relation to sex as a reproductive classification rather than sex characteristics.

Second, when referring to the expectations that societies and cultures place on boys and girls, men and women and the resultant impact of this, the descriptors “social expectations of the sexes” or “social construction of the sexes” should be used. It has recently become common when discussing the interaction between sex and the social expectations of the sexes for the conjunction “sex/gender” to be used (e.g., Galinsky et al., 2024) but this should also be avoided due to the risk of confusion or conflation of the social expectations of the sexes and gender identity.

Third, when referring to gender identity, the term “gender identity” rather than “gender” should be used as the abbreviation risks confusion with sex. In circumstances where it is necessary to discuss issues related to individuals who have changed their legal sex, the term “certificated sex” or “legal sex” may be appropriate (United Kingdom Supreme Court, 2025)."

A Proposal for Terminology for Clear Communication and Avoidance of Confusion in Relation to Sex, the Social Expectations of the Sexes and Gender Identity - Archives of Sexual Behavior

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-025-03310-3

OP posts:
Tiebiter · 04/11/2025 13:15

quantumbutterfly · 04/11/2025 12:58

I'm a simpleton. I'm clear on the meaning of sex, but if social expectations of sexual identity and gender are different, what is gender?

I see it as

Sex = biological
Sexual identity = who you fancy, if anyone
Gender = stereotypes that you perform

LlynTegid · 04/11/2025 13:18

I agree with gender identity being used instead of just gender.

HoppityBun · 04/11/2025 13:19

Unfortunately, I think a large part of the problem is that people are squeamish and coy about saying the word “sex“. Many people think that “gender“ is a polite way of saying “sex“.

Misla · 04/11/2025 13:20

DrKarleenG · 01/11/2025 00:15

Please share it with orgs when you see them using unclear language!

Will do! Excellent work, OP 👏

worstofbothworlds · 04/11/2025 13:23

Fellow academic here who has to write about people a fair bit - it's a great step forward!
I tend to say gender means quite a few things (presentation, identity, synonym for sex, system of oppression) and then make my best guess as to what X paper is doing and/or define what I'm using it as (generally I use it as "system of oppression" and in conjunction with the word "identity" though I make it clear the latter is waffly. I do see older papers saying "biological gender" though so have to re-interpret those.

ScrollingLeaves · 04/11/2025 13:28

DrKarleenG · 01/11/2025 00:15

Please share it with orgs when you see them using unclear language!

The BBC?

ScrollingLeaves · 04/11/2025 13:32

HoppityBun · 04/11/2025 13:19

Unfortunately, I think a large part of the problem is that people are squeamish and coy about saying the word “sex“. Many people think that “gender“ is a polite way of saying “sex“.

You’ll never get Americans saying ‘sex’ rather than ‘gender’ and so much comes from them on this. Now all of a sudden we are all using ‘bathrooms’ because of Americans too.

quantumbutterfly · 04/11/2025 15:32

ScrollingLeaves · 04/11/2025 13:32

You’ll never get Americans saying ‘sex’ rather than ‘gender’ and so much comes from them on this. Now all of a sudden we are all using ‘bathrooms’ because of Americans too.

Edited

I would be very alarmed to see a trans woman in my bathroom with me.

Thank you for pp who have answered my Q. I have recently (since my boys school sex ed 10+ years ago ) separated sex and gender as biological Vs performative (based on societal expectations/ stereotypes).
But when faced with at least 72 gender identities, I wonder where the boundary of performative stereotype Vs delusion is.

quantumbutterfly · 04/11/2025 15:39

But..thank you to op for trying to codify the linguistic and data collecting minefield into coherence.

ScrollingLeaves · 04/11/2025 16:44

Yes, thank you @DrKarleenG

CrystalSingerFan · 04/11/2025 16:50

HoppityBun · 04/11/2025 13:19

Unfortunately, I think a large part of the problem is that people are squeamish and coy about saying the word “sex“. Many people think that “gender“ is a polite way of saying “sex“.

Yes, this.

Plus, in English, isn't it a problem that sex can be both a noun and a verb? You can have XX or XY chromosomes, OR you can have sex (rumpy pumpy, etc.) Which exacerbates the (Judeo-Christian) squeamishness? How many other languages share this problem?

Finally, gender in plenty of non-English languages has a separate and entirely ordinary grammatical function. In France, it's la télévision but le musée‎. Nobody thinks televisions are female, or museums male, I'm guessing. (In England we traditionally refer to ships as 'she' but that's about it, AFAIK.)

Does this also affect different nationalities' response to the wider issues of GC/TWAW?

ScrollingLeaves · 04/11/2025 16:59

CrystalSingerFan · 04/11/2025 16:50

Yes, this.

Plus, in English, isn't it a problem that sex can be both a noun and a verb? You can have XX or XY chromosomes, OR you can have sex (rumpy pumpy, etc.) Which exacerbates the (Judeo-Christian) squeamishness? How many other languages share this problem?

Finally, gender in plenty of non-English languages has a separate and entirely ordinary grammatical function. In France, it's la télévision but le musée‎. Nobody thinks televisions are female, or museums male, I'm guessing. (In England we traditionally refer to ships as 'she' but that's about it, AFAIK.)

Does this also affect different nationalities' response to the wider issues of GC/TWAW?

English used to be fine with ‘sex’.
But people did not used to say ‘have sex’ either. It was ‘make love’ nor ‘f’ or ‘s*’ if more rude; or ‘have intercourse’ or ‘be intimate’ if wanting to be more official.

Gender is a fairly recent import.

CrystalSingerFan · 04/11/2025 17:12

Thanks! The language used around this area is quite fascinating...

I'm 66 and am used to the term 'have sex' (as well as 'sex' and 'gender'). The internet reckons that "the earliest attested uses [of 'to have sex'] (Oxford English Dictionary and corpus evidence) date from circa 1929.

Before that, English speakers used euphemisms like:

  • “lie with” (Biblical/archaic)
  • “know (someone)” (Biblical euphemism)
  • “go to bed with”
  • “sleep with”
  • “carnal knowledge”"
HoppityBun · 04/11/2025 22:43

ScrollingLeaves · 04/11/2025 13:32

You’ll never get Americans saying ‘sex’ rather than ‘gender’ and so much comes from them on this. Now all of a sudden we are all using ‘bathrooms’ because of Americans too.

Edited

Never mind the Americans, I’ve just listened to Mark Kermode review the new film Hedda and he said “they’ve flipped the gender”. Whereas they have, of course, flipped the sex of the character. Agree about the wretched bathroom business. If it weren’t so annoying I’d find it funny that our rugged, heroic and pioneering transatlantic cousins are so delicately coy.

HildegardP · 05/11/2025 00:12

CrystalSingerFan · 04/11/2025 16:50

Yes, this.

Plus, in English, isn't it a problem that sex can be both a noun and a verb? You can have XX or XY chromosomes, OR you can have sex (rumpy pumpy, etc.) Which exacerbates the (Judeo-Christian) squeamishness? How many other languages share this problem?

Finally, gender in plenty of non-English languages has a separate and entirely ordinary grammatical function. In France, it's la télévision but le musée‎. Nobody thinks televisions are female, or museums male, I'm guessing. (In England we traditionally refer to ships as 'she' but that's about it, AFAIK.)

Does this also affect different nationalities' response to the wider issues of GC/TWAW?

You think English is bad? Try French. God love them, the French don't know what they mean by "sexe" or "genre" anymore & observing conversations in which 2 native speakers are completely talking past one another because they're using the words to mean entirely different things makes me sometimes wish the Académie Francaise had legal authority to punish those who abuse the language.

CrystalSingerFan · 05/11/2025 00:49

HildegardP · 05/11/2025 00:12

You think English is bad? Try French. God love them, the French don't know what they mean by "sexe" or "genre" anymore & observing conversations in which 2 native speakers are completely talking past one another because they're using the words to mean entirely different things makes me sometimes wish the Académie Francaise had legal authority to punish those who abuse the language.

Love this!

Perhaps you ought to let Google AI know - it assures me that "French ... has a strong historical association with clarity and precision, sometimes called the "language of law" for its perceived exactness. A historical adage claims that "what is not clear is not French". (Good luck convincing the Académie Francaise.)

I'm disappointed that the originators of Diderot's Encyclopedia aren't maintaining that clarity and precision.

HildegardP · 05/11/2025 02:50

CrystalSingerFan · 05/11/2025 00:49

Love this!

Perhaps you ought to let Google AI know - it assures me that "French ... has a strong historical association with clarity and precision, sometimes called the "language of law" for its perceived exactness. A historical adage claims that "what is not clear is not French". (Good luck convincing the Académie Francaise.)

I'm disappointed that the originators of Diderot's Encyclopedia aren't maintaining that clarity and precision.

Historical is the crucial bit there. Sadly. I'm not totally convinced of the exactitude though, the language has so many homophones & homographs, To take your ref to the law as an eg; "avocat" means "lawyer" also, "avocado".

quantumbutterfly · 05/11/2025 08:22

If you're marked down in a test for misgendering a noun, would you have grounds to appeal that it was transgender?

CrystalSingerFan · 05/11/2025 10:56

quantumbutterfly · 05/11/2025 08:22

If you're marked down in a test for misgendering a noun, would you have grounds to appeal that it was transgender?

😁

ScrollingLeaves · 05/11/2025 15:11

CrystalSingerFan · 04/11/2025 17:12

Thanks! The language used around this area is quite fascinating...

I'm 66 and am used to the term 'have sex' (as well as 'sex' and 'gender'). The internet reckons that "the earliest attested uses [of 'to have sex'] (Oxford English Dictionary and corpus evidence) date from circa 1929.

Before that, English speakers used euphemisms like:

  • “lie with” (Biblical/archaic)
  • “know (someone)” (Biblical euphemism)
  • “go to bed with”
  • “sleep with”
  • “carnal knowledge”"

‘Have sex with’ was known but everyone said ‘sleep with’ (I forgot to say before) as in the meaning of the song “Voulez-vous coucher avec moi ce soir?”, as well as ‘make love’.

At this point people were quite happy to ask “What sex is the baby?” without embarrassment.

ScrollingLeaves · 05/11/2025 15:46

About three years ago I tried to write to OED about their on-line dictionary which stated that homosexual meant someone who is attracted to someone of the same sex or gender. I said it did not make sense, and why. They replied to say they simply record how language is being used. So it is a vicious circle. I think because of this the OP’s paper will need to be sent out thousands upon thousands of times to make a dent.

In fact, after their reply, I saw that the full volume OED in the library (date?) was describing homosexual accurately. So I wrote to say:

And, so as to be clear about what “sex” means,“sex” is defined in the full volume OED as male and female biologically:

*“Either of the two main categories
(male and female) into which
humans and many other living
things are divided on the basis of
their reproductive functions”^

And, so as to be clear that “gender” is not biological sex, “gender” is defined as:

”Psychology and Sociology (originally U.S.). The state of being male or female as expressed by social or cultural distinctions and differences, rather than biological ones”

Me reiterating to OED on line :
So it does not make sense to say a homosexual can be attracted to someone of the same sex or gender.

They did not reply.
I wonder what the next full volume edition will say? We should maybe send them the OP’s paper.

New paper with language recommendations on sex and gender identity
New paper with language recommendations on sex and gender identity
CrystalSingerFan · 05/11/2025 17:01

ScrollingLeaves · 05/11/2025 15:46

About three years ago I tried to write to OED about their on-line dictionary which stated that homosexual meant someone who is attracted to someone of the same sex or gender. I said it did not make sense, and why. They replied to say they simply record how language is being used. So it is a vicious circle. I think because of this the OP’s paper will need to be sent out thousands upon thousands of times to make a dent.

In fact, after their reply, I saw that the full volume OED in the library (date?) was describing homosexual accurately. So I wrote to say:

And, so as to be clear about what “sex” means,“sex” is defined in the full volume OED as male and female biologically:

*“Either of the two main categories
(male and female) into which
humans and many other living
things are divided on the basis of
their reproductive functions”^

And, so as to be clear that “gender” is not biological sex, “gender” is defined as:

”Psychology and Sociology (originally U.S.). The state of being male or female as expressed by social or cultural distinctions and differences, rather than biological ones”

Me reiterating to OED on line :
So it does not make sense to say a homosexual can be attracted to someone of the same sex or gender.

They did not reply.
I wonder what the next full volume edition will say? We should maybe send them the OP’s paper.

This. I get increasingly fed up with the "LGBTQI_? association"

In the LGB bit, the referenced words are associated with the word 'sexual', which implies that other people's actual sex is important to sexual attraction. (It is for me.) For the T, the idea that human mammals can change sex is a nonsense.

Go, LGB Alliance! (Although, has anyone suggested an LGBH alliance? Where the biolgical sex of everyone's preferences takes centre stage?

ScrollingLeaves · 05/11/2025 19:31

CrystalSingerFan · 05/11/2025 17:01

This. I get increasingly fed up with the "LGBTQI_? association"

In the LGB bit, the referenced words are associated with the word 'sexual', which implies that other people's actual sex is important to sexual attraction. (It is for me.) For the T, the idea that human mammals can change sex is a nonsense.

Go, LGB Alliance! (Although, has anyone suggested an LGBH alliance? Where the biolgical sex of everyone's preferences takes centre stage?

LGBH alliance -good idea

MyLostUsername · 07/11/2025 12:22

Just seen this

https://www.nihr.ac.uk/about-us/who-we-are/policies-and-guidelines/sex-and-gender-research

Gender
Gender* *refers to an aspect of a person’s identity. A person experiences a range of social and cultural forces. This includes both constraints and privileges, based on their gender, which may influence their behaviours, their perception of themselves and how they are treated by others. All of these influences may be relevant for health and social care research.
When accounting for gender, it is essential to understand that an individual’s gender is not binary, exists on a spectrum, can change over time, and intersects with other aspects of their identity such as age, ethnicity, disability and sexual orientation. There is considerable diversity in how people experience and express gender within and across societies and communities.
When considering gender for the purposes of research, researchers may need to account for specific gender characteristics of research participants, such as:

  • gender identity, that is the gender with which a person identifies
  • gender expression, that is how a person outwardly presents themselves in relation to gender
  • gender modality, that is whether a person’s gender identity is the same as their sex assigned at birth - cisgender, or different to their sex assigned at birth - transgender
  • perceived or presumed gender, that is how a person’s gender is typically understood by those around them. This may differ from their gender identity or gender expression
Refer to NIHR’s inclusive research funding application guidance for more detailed background and guidance on accounting for sex and gender in research.

🙄

WarriorN · 07/11/2025 17:39

DrKarleenG · 01/11/2025 08:53

Gah! yes, it's incredibly how poorly many researchers are handling this issue.

These other papers may also assist.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10805-025-09605-3

https://www.womenandbirth.org/article/S1871-5192(24)00314-7/fulltext

these are all great - thank you for your paper too!

it makes a lot more sense

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