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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Parents who sexually abuse any child will now automatically lose parental rights

42 replies

IwantToRetire · 23/10/2025 18:18

On Monday 20 October, a government-backed amendment to the Victims and Courts Bill was tabled which will ensure that parents convicted of serious sexual offences against any child will automatically have their parental rights over their own children removed.

Currently, parental rights are ‘absolute’ in law and can only be managed through a court order. This means that even if a father is convicted of sexual offences against children and is imprisoned as a result, they retain parental responsibility. There is nothing to prevent him from seeking contact with his own child or having a say in the child’s life

There is also currently no automatic parental restrictions for men who are convicted and sentenced for a rape resulting in the birth of a child. Perpetrators are able to apply for parental responsibility, leaving survivors to live in fear that they may have to regularly discuss their child's health, education and upbringing with the man who raped them.

Full press release from Rape Crisis at https://rapecrisis.org.uk/news/parents-with-sexual-offenses-against-any-child-will-now-automatically-lose-parental-rights/

Parents who sexually abuse any child will now automatically lose parental rights

We welcome this new amendment, which at last places survivors' rights above those of their abusers by automatically restricting the parenting responsibility of those who sexually abuse children and commit rape.

https://rapecrisis.org.uk/news/parents-with-sexual-offenses-against-any-child-will-now-automatically-lose-parental-rights/

OP posts:
Babyboomtastic · 23/10/2025 21:51

In general, great, but with automatic bans like this, it's possible for the occasional injustice to occur, because the law hasn't been fully thought through.

Take teenage parents for example. A 17 year old teenage mum sends a nude photo to the dad of her baby. Both have committed a sexual offence. Should the baby effectively be taken into care or adopted because of this?

Or a 16 year old teenage dad has sex with a 15 year old girl. Should that mean he never sees his baby again?

I'm glad they can apply to the family court, but I think for the extremely rare case where it would be unjust to remove their rights, the crown court should have discretion over this.

TooBigForMyBoots · 23/10/2025 21:53

Titasaducksarse · 23/10/2025 21:31

Hi, I don't have a link. I heard it on the radio yesterday, ironically en route to court.

Thankfully it sounds like they got it wrong.🙏 Child sex offenders will automatically lose Parental Responsibility.

This is so needed for women and children across the country.💞

ScrollingLeaves · 23/10/2025 23:03

IwantToRetire · 23/10/2025 20:18

In the press release:

There are two key amendments:

  • Parents convicted of serious sexual offences against any child, not just their own, will now be “automatically deprived” of their parental rights.
  • A perpetrator’s parental responsibility will now be restricted in cases where they have been convicted and sentenced for a rape that resulted in the birth of a child..
A convicted sex offender would only be able to get their parental rights back if they made an application to the Family Court and could persuade the Court that it is in the child’s "best interests" that their parental rights are reinstated.

There will be some who will be very good at doing that convincing.

soupyspoon · 23/10/2025 23:09

Babyboomtastic · 23/10/2025 21:51

In general, great, but with automatic bans like this, it's possible for the occasional injustice to occur, because the law hasn't been fully thought through.

Take teenage parents for example. A 17 year old teenage mum sends a nude photo to the dad of her baby. Both have committed a sexual offence. Should the baby effectively be taken into care or adopted because of this?

Or a 16 year old teenage dad has sex with a 15 year old girl. Should that mean he never sees his baby again?

I'm glad they can apply to the family court, but I think for the extremely rare case where it would be unjust to remove their rights, the crown court should have discretion over this.

They would have to be convicted and be considered a risk to children. Highly unlikely they would eve be arrested/cautioned or anything

However I think in previous posts the links provided cause a query, parental 'rights' is not the same as PR

Im not sure this will deliver what people expect, as often as it might do.

Convictions of CSA are all but impossible at the best of times. And I think the 'rights' that are being referred to are the rights to contact or the assumption of contact rather than PR being removed.

I may well be wrong

Fiftyandme · 23/10/2025 23:09

So way past time it’s beyond shameful.

JellySaurus · 24/10/2025 18:37

What would this mean for child maintenance? If a prisoner convicted of sexual offences against children is independently wealthy (income from investments, for example) would losing his parental responsibility mean that he no longer had to financially support his children?

InConniptions · 24/10/2025 18:58

I hope this also extends to physical violence. Friends of my family fostered an adorable 2 year old back in the 80s. He was returned to his parents and they took his life. I have never forgotten that dear child.

ScrollingLeaves · 24/10/2025 19:59

JellySaurus · 24/10/2025 18:37

What would this mean for child maintenance? If a prisoner convicted of sexual offences against children is independently wealthy (income from investments, for example) would losing his parental responsibility mean that he no longer had to financially support his children?

Even without Parental Responsibility a man is supposed to support his child.

Geneticsbunny · 24/10/2025 20:55

How the fuck was that not a thing before now!

ChicoryChina · 24/10/2025 22:45

Praise the Lord! Finally.

QBTheRoundestOfBees · 24/10/2025 23:19

Titasaducksarse · 23/10/2025 21:07

The news haven't reported it as such but, I have involvement with family court and we've had no briefings etc therefore, if this is the case I think we're many months if not years from actually seeing the practicality of this taking place.

A lot of case law would need to be amended for starters and we know how, all it will take is a change of Government and things will stall etc.

Edited

Surely previous case law is superceded if the statutory law changes, though, and then new case law will develop as judges interpret this and/or respond to specific cases arising.

I had a look at the Bill, it’s going to its third reading, and then has to get through the House of Lords and then be given Royal Assent, as far as I can see . It’s October and so I am not sure why this would not be passed this Parliament. It’s not going to be years before it is enacted in that case. There will be a date it will become law and then courts need to pay attention to it. I don’t think it is that difficult.

What gives me pause is section 3 (3) - so section 3 states that the Crown Court must make a prohibited steps order when sentencing for these offences but then 3 (3) says that the order must specify that no steps can be taken by the offender to meet their parental responsibility without the consent of the High Court or family court. So what I think this means and I may be wrong is that the Crown Court puts a prohibited steps order in place to stop PR but the offender can still go to the High Court or family court to argue their case - so let’s say they are convicted for five years, serve their sentence, then they go to the court and raise an action for contact.

I think this does shift the emphasis, it’s not on the mother, presuming the offender is a man in line with the balance of probability, to get the prohibited steps order in a context where there is a presumption of contact, as the prohibited steps order is put in place automatically. But it can be overturned by the High Court or family court then, as I read it, which is where the case law will come in. But case law subsequent to the passage of the Act as judges have decisions to make.

I am happy for someone who knows law better than me to tell me if I am wrong. But I don’t see that it means PR revoked for all time. It means it can only be exercised again with the consent of a court.

MannersAreAll · 24/10/2025 23:26

JellySaurus · 24/10/2025 18:37

What would this mean for child maintenance? If a prisoner convicted of sexual offences against children is independently wealthy (income from investments, for example) would losing his parental responsibility mean that he no longer had to financially support his children?

PR isn't relevant to CM. If the claim is put in the someone can claim they are not the father and a DNA test ordered, but CMS don't use PR when it comes to claims (generally because it's not necessary to have a father on a birth certificate to open a claim).

logiccalls · 26/10/2025 14:27

At last! (Though, as always, getting a conviction is difficult/ next to impossible in many cases.)

But another page of MN has a thread today, worried about a female relative who has had a series of children removed. The poster is not sure of details, but knows the woman is now getting i.v.f., to the horror of anyone who knows the history.

Suggestions are that social services can do nothing to notify the i.v.f. people, (It is not known if it is NHS or private in UK, or is being arranged overseas, and not known what name or address the breeder now has. )

But in any case, nothing could be done until after the birth.

That appears to leave an option for a determined man, willing to spend some money, to get in touch with a woman whose life history includes having a series of children removed, and, according to her family, not caring in the least what happens to them, or what is done to them, by herself (or, presumably, by anyone else, before the s.s. comes to take them away.

Surrogacy to order, for abuse, is known to happen, particularly in USA, but it cannot be impossible in UK, either.

Presumably a pretence of being a couple, or, actually being a couple, to get the infant, would be a man's plan. (Damaging the child during pregnancy, by feeding the mother drugs and alcohol, would not be a problem. It would keep her compliant. If the baby was intended for his filmed abuse, and/ or for hire to other men for that purpose, it presumably wouldn't impair the financial value of it, to have feotal alcohol syndrome, and/ or to be seriously brain damaged with drug withdrawal convulsions)

Must UK law demand each new infant conceived, even to a serial breeder, has to be carried to term and born? An addict or alcoholic will do serious damage to that infant, long before birth.

Must UK law protect, as sacred, the fertility (or even, given i.v.f., just the womb,) of all women involved in serial production of infants they cannot care for?

From replies in the other thread, it seemed that for most babies, even if the current name and address were known, there is no automatic system even to notify social services.

But arguably, surely it would be better to get a court order for sterilisation of both parents where abuse is inevitable.
(And of course, for all men on the child abuse register)

I.i.r.c., court ordered sterilisation can be done, at least for females. (If not both sexes, why not?) The legislation was intended for those who have for those with limited capacity to take their own decisions.

Perhaps that law could be 'tweaked', or could be stretched to include 'the best interests' of any future child, defending it from being conceived or born, to a parent or parents who are already known to be unfit or dangerous to have control of a child, PRE- natally as well as postnatally.

The Baby P mother, Conolly, and the Crichel heiress, Martin, each had seven children removed, before the deaths of their respective eighth infants. Conolly managed to get pregnant with number nine, while awaiting trial (and was allowed to keep it, in jail, to get access to the mother and baby unit, which is an easier place than mainstream prison) Martin is still clearly still besotted with the father of her eight, abused or dead, children, and would obviously have a ninth, tenth and so on, if she could get near him.

IwantToRetire · 26/10/2025 19:05

The Baby P mother, Conolly, and the Crichel heiress, Martin, each had seven children removed, before the deaths of their respective eighth infants.

There are lots of studies about women like this, and there may have been a thread on FWR a while ago.

The act of removing a child with no prospect of it being returned, then makes the mother think the only option is to have another child.

Its worth reading up on.

So just to lump all women who have behaved like this as somehow the problem, doesn't address the issue.

Of course, we could return to earlier decades where it would be more than likely that the woman would be forcibly sterolised.

OP posts:
IwantToRetire · 26/10/2025 19:09

We’re Pause,

a national charity that works to improve the lives of women who have had – or are at risk of having – more than one child removed from their care, and the services and systems that affect them.

...

There are a number of families that have more than one child removed from their care. This is a significant issue across the UK – almost half of all infants who are taken into care have a sibling who is already in the care system.

https://www.pause.org.uk/why-pause/

Why Pause? - Pause – Creating Space for Change

The need for Pause There are a number of families that have more than one child removed from their care. This is a significant issue across the UK – almost half of all infants who are taken into care have a sibling who is already in the care system.  ...

https://www.pause.org.uk/why-pause

OP posts:
SinnerBoy · 26/10/2025 20:09

logiccalls · Today 14:27

Surrogacy to order, for abuse, is known to happen, particularly in USA, but it cannot be impossible in UK, either.

Presumably a pretence of being a couple, or, actually being a couple, to get the infant, would be a man's plan. (Damaging the child during pregnancy, by feeding the mother drugs and alcohol, would not be a problem. It would keep her compliant. If the baby was intended for his filmed abuse, and/ or for hire to other men for that purpose, it presumably wouldn't impair the financial value of it, to have feotal alcohol syndrome, and/ or to be seriously brain damaged with drug withdrawal convulsions)

God, what have I just read? It seems that inventiveness to enable depravity is boundless.

😳

JamieCannister · 27/10/2025 08:09

IwantToRetire · 23/10/2025 20:18

In the press release:

There are two key amendments:

  • Parents convicted of serious sexual offences against any child, not just their own, will now be “automatically deprived” of their parental rights.
  • A perpetrator’s parental responsibility will now be restricted in cases where they have been convicted and sentenced for a rape that resulted in the birth of a child..
A convicted sex offender would only be able to get their parental rights back if they made an application to the Family Court and could persuade the Court that it is in the child’s "best interests" that their parental rights are reinstated.

Surely parents should ALWAYS retain a degree of parental responsibility. That responsibility might only be financial if they cannot be trusted to ever meet with or speak to the child.

I am not sure I am that happy with the idea of a parent having rights over a child - much more important is their responsibilities. A parents rights over their child are really nothing more than the right to exercise their responsibilities (and the right not to have the state or an abusive partner exercise those responsibilities).

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