So many men not working or doing anything

[Gettingbysomehow]

I don't know what the hell is going on but I have so many friends who are married to men who aren't working or doing anything.
I counted 10 so far and that's just the ones I know.
Woman goes out to work, pays for everything, man sits at home and does bugger all. For years.
These people are across all social classes.
Some of them are attending university but subjects that will not get them a new job at 30/40 years old.
This seems to be a new trend, the stay at home cocklodger.
I divorced my last husband for it. One day he got sacked and didn't work again. So I divorced him, I don't need excess baggage.
Anyone else know men like this?

I had a brother live with me for 3 years and no job.
He only moved out when he found a woman and moved in with her. He now Cocklodges with her.
I genuinely don't understand it.
There seems to be a crisis of directionless men.

I can’t say I do know any such men. I’m of an age where I have friends that have retired and are having a whale of a time, but otherwise no, all male acquaintances gainfully employed and/or usefully occupied.

I don't know any men like this, except a couple on sickness benefit (not sure if you'd include that or not). Of course my anecdote is worth no more than yours.

I do have a couple of female friends looking for work- one was sacked and one made redundant about 12 months ago. Both have done some re-training, but the job market seems very difficult at the moment, particularly for corporate jobs.

Some of the men you know might just be finding it difficult to get work again- more women work in the public sector so our jobs are often safer.

Of course, could be that you just know a lot of lazy, feckless men.

Why should both partners work if they can afford not to?

In my childhood, hardly any women worked. They weren't all cocklodgers.

Yes, I’ve seen it. They do the school run but that’s it. Even that stresses them out. They talk about traffic and being tired all the time.

I think there is definitely a younger generation of men nowadays who don't particularly take pride in being a provider anymore. They've also been fed a narrative that most women are gold-diggers and that any expectation placed on them financially is unreasonable.

A woman doing full time job at home keeping the house and caring for kids are not cocklodgers. A man sitting home not doing anything for the house or kids and probably just playing games/on their phone all day are cocklodgers. See the difference?

My friends and I all have cocklodger brothers. This is what happens when men don't have/aren't taught a sense of duty. They instinctively only care for themselves. I'm not sure it's "new" though. I think it's just one of the negatives of typical male behaviour. Of course, there are positive ones too that we should try to encourage in our sons eg protectiveness, duty, courage etc.

I don't know any men like that - all the ones I know work very hard, as do their wives/partners.

I don't see much of what you describe in the men I associate with - but then I live in a rural traditional area and people are generally right leaning and they haven't paid that much attention to the liberal awfulnessness of the past few decades.

It is men who need to do a lot of the hard labour jobs here, and forever it will be so.

My grown up sons listened to people like Jordan Peterson a lot too, so didn't ever fall for the emasculated man model and are set up to be a provider should their wives/girlfriends ever want to be SAHMs

I only see this as a problem for those women they’re shacked up with. And if they’re idiotic or enough to enable some useless lump that’s up to them. I’m sure if they don’t do anything more than just the school run, I can imagine some women will be happy with that, just to be able to go out to work with that peace of mind that the kids are sorted and the lights will be on.

I agree. There are endless depressing threads of husbands, sons, step sons, brothers who sit in their stinking rooms gaming, gambling not doing any worthwhile work. Not cooking or washing. There's one running on the step parenting board currently.

I hear of this through media and data but personally don't see it in my own circles (which I think are quite diverse). DH is a hard worker and very ambitious despite having a chronic health condition for past decade. All my BILs and friends' husbands work and are also very involved dads.

My Gen Z nephews - supposedly the generation that lives in their mums' basement gaming all day and not finding a job - are all hard working. One has autism but has a ft customer service job and is on the town council. One a senior manager for a global brand in his mid-20s. Another works in construction very long and tough hours. We are from working class background and rural area and there is no sense that there is an alternative to work - it's just something you have to do. You can't opt out.

I think I'm lucky though. I've read some horror stories - especially on here.

DS16 doesn't have a Saturday job but he does do 4 A-levels and a lot of extra curriculars. He is a 'lazy' risk but I hope he benefits from having a lot of good role models around him. There aren't really many jobs for students round here.

I don't know a single man or woman like that. Or a single man or woman who'd put up with it.

I've seen this a lot, most of the men are in their 70s and use the excuse of "retirement".

Do some of them have young children in which case they may be the SAHP or WFH?

I can think of one couple in this situation but he is absolutely not a 'cocklodger'. They are newly-married, he was very unhappy in his last job so is currently on a degree course. She is a TA. They made the agreement to do this before their wedding.

If it was him working and her on the degree course, I doubt it would be given a thought. Although, I hadn't actually given it a thought until just now.

I also don't know anyone like this in my circles, and I wonder why, because I believe you that you do.

Do you think it might be area based? I live in London, maybe it's easier to find a job here.

I know that that is the worst outcome I'd ever fear for my kids. Being an unemployed waster must be the most miserable existence.

Thinking about it, I do used to know of two men who are arguably like that but we are no longer friends and have lost touch years ago. Maybe it's just that I avoid people like that as much as I can.

Studying or SAHH is doing something useful. Doing some bloody chores once in a while is useful. Cocklodgers let everyone else work around them while they suck up their resources, give nothing back and moan about how unfair the world is to them. And in many cases, abusive towards the one who is doing everything to run the household, pay the bills etc. My brother is one. My mother begged me not to call social services because she would be devastated if it impacted his future.

How many mothers are stuck with their abusive sons out there? I imagine a lot. Really, there's no love stronger than a mother's love.

I know of one man like this, in his 30s. If he was being a proper house husband him not working would be acceptable, but he loafs around all day, doesn't clean up, doesn't cook. He literally does the school run and that's it.

I couldn't think of anything more off putting in my life.

My DD has been complaining about this in her age group( late teens, early 20's). She's a student but works 20+ hours a week and says there are so many guys who are not working or doing anything really. Don't know if it's jobs are hard to get or what.

The only one I know of is an ex partner of a young friend (in her 20's). He is/was an academic, (for which read perpetual student) who didn't work because he was 'writing a book'. I told her that I wrote my first book when I was a working single mum of five, and they split up shortly afterwards (I don't really think it was anything to do with my contribution, she was pretty sick of him anyway).

I do know of a couple of men like this who seem to get very stressed out at the thought of doing anything at all, whether that’s work (they are off on sick leave re mental health) or just life - taking care of family, home, cooking meals etc. meanwhile their other halves run round doing everything, from unblocking drains to making all the money to the school run. It’s really sad – both from the aimless drift angle and the pressure it puts on those around them – mainly the women in their lives.

I don't know anyone like this.

It would be interesting to know the breakdown of the numbers of men like this, by region and class and whether there are also cultural aspects.

I was brought up in a working class family where money just about covered the essentials and not much more. The message we heard from all our relatives (across the political spectrum) was that you don’t get anything or anywhere without working hard. DB got his first job at 13 with an evening paper round. He was motivated to get the latest trainers and the latest games. I waited till I was 16 for my first Saturday job but I wanted fashionable clothes and not the naff stuff off the market that mum could afford.

As far as my parents were concerned, they were happy to support us living at home as adults with a nominal amount of “keep” paid to them if we were working and/or studying. It was made very clear that we were expected to be doing one or the other. Bumming about all day would never have been tolerated. If we were not studying or working (e.g. some university vacations) then we were expected to contribute in other ways to the family, usually by doing chores at home or errands for our grandparents.

Whereas if I look at DSS who is in his early twenties, DH admits DSS’s childhood was financially much more comfortable than either of us and so he never had the drive to go out and earn his own money for spends. He doesn’t seem very motivated by with his job or his studies even though he says it’s what he wants to do - he has a nice room in his mums nice house with everything he wants, and if asked what he wants to do in the future (eg travel, get a qualification, start a business, buy his own house, have a family of his own) we just get a shrug. It’s very frustrating for DH and his ex, but they thought at the time they were doing the right thing by giving DSS a “better” childhood than their own.

I was brought up in an immigrant family.
Enough said. Get an education or die trying, pretty much.

I know two SAHDs (I live with one, almost - he earns a little bit now DS is at school). I know one "house husband" with a wealthy wife. They have a cleaner and a gardener but he does anything domestic that needs doing.

Anyone without a job and with no pre-school kids (or kids with additional/ high needs) is going to have a fair bit of free time but if their spouse is OK with the arrangement then fine.