So how are things going in Germany?

[Toutafait]

So Germany brought in self-ID almost a year ago, together with a hefty fine for deadnaming. I have a German friend, and he tells me that trans rights are now a non-issue in Germany. Nobody ever talks about them, apparently. So I'm wondering whether everything's going well ("transwomen" behaving like women, no children being inappropriately transitioned and operated on, nothing else bad happening), or whether bad things are happening and it's being swept under the carpet.
I've asked ChatGPT whether there are any problems, and I'll give you its response. It has mentioned the case of the Nazi criminal self-IDing to get access to a women's prison, but no other specific incidents. Does anyone have any more information?

"Where problems and discussions continue

Social acceptance & discrimination
Even though many things are now easier legally, trans and non-binary people continue to report everyday discrimination, prejudice and hate crimes.
Deutsche Welle
+1
Many such incidents continue to go unreported for fear of reprisals or because those affected do not believe that taking action will make any difference.
Deutsche Welle

Political and public controversies
There is criticism from conservative or right-wing circles, particularly with regard to minors, possible ‘risks of abuse’ in self-determination, or fears that the rights of women or other groups could be affected. Although many of these allegations are controversial, they accompany the debate.
Deutsche Welle
+1

The issue of minors remains difficult
Although changes are possible for young people aged 14 and over under certain conditions (parental consent, etc.), the treatment of younger children in particular remains controversial. Opinions differ on how extensive and early medical/specialised support should be (e.g. puberty blockers, hormone treatments), and there are practical hurdles such as access, costs, specialists, etc.
bild.de
+1

Enforcement and application in practice
Laws are one thing — how they are actually implemented is often another. For example, there are regional differences in Germany, delays at government offices, ambiguities among government employees, or problems with international documents, passports, etc.
Deutsche Welle
+1

Rights vs. public safety & institutions
A current dispute: a convicted neo-Nazi who has legally changed his gender is to serve his prison sentence in a women's prison. This has sparked a debate about whether and how the new law can be abused there and which institutions need to prepare for such cases and how.
The Washington Post"

Presumably it's the whole 'there are no men on this ward' problem.

If no-one is allowed to mention their real sex, not the victim, not the media, not the police, then how can it be recorded?

Do you know if there has been an increase in rape in woman's prisons? Sexual assaults in female spaces? Women committing 'male' crimes? Murder or child abuse? Perhaps this would be the only indicator?

My colleagues in Germany aren’t aware of any increases and it just seems life’s normal. So that’s Mysogeny and assaults by ‘bio’ men. But as you say it could be swept under the carpet, but I’m sure the right wing and conservative/christian media would be saying something. Can anyone check that? Who knows 🤷‍♀️

It is definitely not without problems, but there is much less public debate.

https://www-emma-de.translate.goog/artikel/trans-kinder-zitieren-eltern-vor-gericht-341995?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp

https://www-emma-de.translate.goog/artikel/transaktivisten-bedrohen-wissenschaftler-341999?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp

https://www-emma-de.translate.goog/artikel/frauentoiletten-bleiben-341341?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp

https://www-merkur-de.translate.goog/lokales/muenchen-lk/haar-ort104496/muenchen-haar-isar-amper-klinikum-tote-polizei-einsatz-feuer-91582603.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp

https://feministlegal.org/germany-two-trans-identified-male-inmates-housed-in-womens-prisons-were-transferred-out-after-threatening-female-inmates-inquiry-reveals/

@onlytherain That's interesting - thanks. Do you have any predictions for the future?

From the last link above:

The male inmate is said to have sexually harassed female inmates, repeatedly pressured them for sex, threatened them with assault, and masturbated in the corridors of the detention center.
The sexual harassment only came to light after a letter from a female inmate was published by German press. Following outcry, the trans-identified male was returned to a men’s prison.

It sounds like, as far as the authorities are concerned, it's "there are no men on this ward". Those poor women

Surely this is one of the reasons we’ve been fighting so hard to maintain our language? If nobody is allowed to talk about it, then obviously the msm aren’t going to report the facts. We’ve had enough experience with the bbc reporting to know how it obscures understanding. Threatening people with massive fines for telling the truth seems likely to halt debate. Then recruit the kids to spy on their parents and…… I’m surprised Germans aren’t more aware of where that could lead

Germany is worse than Canada. Every attempt to speak up is shot down very fast. The Germans are so intent on being liberal post World War Two, that they let everything in.

As ‘misgendering’ and deadnaming is punishable by a fine of up to €10,000, they make it very difficult to speak about the issue.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/germanys-gender-madness-is-a-worry-for-women-everywhere/

However they do know that many kids grow out of their gender dysphoria. There is very little info on what they are doing with this knowledge though.

A new study (now available in English) from Germany poses a formidable challenge to the presumption of permanence of gender dysphoria in adolescents and young adults. German insurance data, containing medical claims for about 14 million insured persons aged 5–24, indicate that over 60% of young people diagnosed with "Gender Identity Disorder" (F64) no longer have the diagnosis 5 years later, indicating low diagnostic stability.

segm.org/gender-dysphoria-diagnosis-desistance-germany

When people talk about Germany adopting ultra-progressive causes, someone usually posts a link to this article: The Sexual Revolution and Children: How the Left Took Things Too Far - SPIEGEL ONLINE

Although it deals with events decades ago, this commitment to separate modern Germany from the past feeds both into what happened there and how it is very difficult to challenge gender identity ideology.

A friend lives in Germany and reminded me of how they covered up girls being assaulted by immigrants after Merkel's open door policy. The growth and popularity of the AfD is being helped by cover ups. Don't be suprised.

Wow. That’s closer to the early longitudinal study/ies before the Dutch protocol kicked in, isn’t it? It deserves a thread of its own.

OP have a quick browse through https://reduxx.info There are a number of news items on the site that illustrate ongoing problems with Germany’s self ID laws and deadnaming laws. Germany comes up fairly regularly.

https://www.womensdeclaration.com/en/country-info/germany/

Anyone who recalls how things were in the UK pre Forstater will know very well that an absence of reporting of issues does not equate to an absence of issues.

If males are recorded as females on demand, then the problems are invisibility in stats. Data becomes meaningless.

If the media won't report, or won't report accurately for fear of censure from whatever the German equivalents of Ofcom etc are, then how would anybody know?

'Life seems normal' is a farcical claim in this context.

Even in one's own small community, serious issues may be unnoticed. Every town has rapists and domestic abusers living in it, for example. The fact any one person is unaware of who these people are, or the crimes they've committed is not indicative of the prevalence (or absence) of an issue. And unfortunately, abuse is commonplace. One could say endemic.

I recall Karen White sexually assaulting women in prison. The media would barely report on it, and I remember Jameela Jamil flat out refusing to believe he was real.

Post Isla Bryson, it all seems hard to credit, but back then very few people were aware if the issues, very few news outlets would report, and most social media would ban you for even mentioning it. We'd have been deleted and possibly banned on here for using male pronouns for White, for example. We still had to maintain respect for his preference, despite his crimes.

Blog here, with English translation:

geschlecht-zaehlt.de/category/alle/

Hello there. Interesting question. I live in Berlin and am hyper aware that I cannot say anything that would appear 'terfy' unless I'm at home or with good friends.
I'm a teacher and have had students medically 'transition' at 14, which was really rather confronting and upsetting and was a reason I became so aware of the issue.
Recently, there has been a teacher at my husband's school. A man. Very obviously a man. British, who wishes to be addressed as 'Miss'. ( bemused me as of course most women teachers tend to be Ms). We're wondering whether the self ID policy here will bring British men who will not be tolerated in the same way in the UK.
I've just attended FiLiA and although I'm aware of some of the issues, it was utterly wonderful to hear views which align with mine ( on the trans issue) and to feel free to speak.
We have been working in Europe for almost 20 years but self ID and being silenced may bring us home. A friend pointed out that the Supreme Court ruling may be the first benefit of Brexit!

"British, who wishes to be addressed as 'Miss'. ( bemused me as of course most women teachers tend to be Ms)."

He wants people to call him Fräulein, in German? Or to call him Miss, in English lessons?
(Fräulein is never used these days, it is all but dead. Would be very weird to meet a woman wanting to be called that, much more a man. )

I have a German friend, and he tells me that trans rights are now a non-issue in Germany. Nobody ever talks about them, apparently.

I probably wouldn't talk about them either if I could get a fine/criminal record/jail sentence for doing so.

ChatGPT only scours websites so it will regurgitate whatever propaganda is out there.

I just asked 'Are trans women male or female'

ChatGPT said:

Trans women are female.

A trans woman is someone who was assigned male at birth but identifies and lives as a woman. In terms of gender identity — which refers to a person's internal understanding of themselves — trans women are women.

Germany has form for being dreadful on women’s rights. Before 2016, rape wasn’t considered rape unless you could show that you had put up a physical fight.

It’s very interesting reading, not just about the high levels of desistance after 5 years but the supplanting of diagnoses for sexual development disorders like sexual maturation disorder.

It was released last year so there might well be a thread. I’ll have a look in a bit.

Absence of evidence isn't evidence of an absence of a problem.

We'd probably have said fairly similar in 2016.

I'm mindful that the UK is culturally much more prone to fashion trends and generally speaking more conformist too.

I suspect there's been media pushing of it across the board and less piss taking for these reasons. And the language difference is a barrier from more extreme English language militancy.

Also if you aren't recording sex, you can't notice many of the problems that might arise - because you have no way of doing so.

What a great website! I’ve been reading for hours.

it really highlights what a cesspool of deviants this trans movement really is (or is enabling for).

I meant reduxx.info site