Bristol Council insists women be called ‘people with ovaries’

[IwantToRetire]

The comments were made in a 39-page response to a consultation by the Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) on updates to its guidance, following the ruling that sex in equality laws refers to biological sex.

It wrote that “not all pregnant individuals would use the pronouns ‘she/her’” so it could lead to “emotional and psychological distress” for “trans men, non-binary, gender diverse or intersex individuals”.

“We strongly advise the use of more inclusive language such as using ‘they/them’ to refer to all individuals, or include other identities to reflect the diversity of individuals who access maternity or paternity services,” officials said.

“This could include ‘people with ovaries’ or the term ‘people who use paternity services’. We also recognise that individuals may not identify with the word maternity and prefer paternity as it is gender neutral.

“Additionally, it is unclear what support will be available to trans people who chest-feed to ensure they are protected from discrimination.”
Protections based on biological sex are “too vague”, the response added, as: “It is unclear whether it refers to anyone capable of pregnancy, or only those who were assigned female at birth.”

Council officials complained that the new guidance implies that “trans women are not ‘really’ women” and risked “creating a hostile environment in public services”.

Full article at https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/09/22/council-says-women-called-people-with-ovaries/

And at https://archive.is/TOgKA

So there is a community of women we have on my.unit who, for modesty reasons, dont like to talk about breastfeeding. If they do refer to it, they will call it "nursing". A term I personally hate because it sounds like making a sick person better to me and I think it was invented to not allude to women's bodies as they're seen as sinful and vile.

Do you think I should just use "breastfeeding" anyway to them? Knowing it goes against their cultural values and will cause offence, or discomfort or distress? Shall I just say fuck you and what you think about your own body and baby, use what I think instead?

All sorts of people believe all sorts of things, and as I have said before you need to say whatever is necessary to an individual patient to ensure the best outcome. I would guess that there are far, far worse situations to deal with than a woman who has a hang up about gender.

The problem is the generalisation of that hangup to everyone through posters and leaflets and policies that make it taboo to talk clearly about sex.

The post natal period is the very worst time to give women in general the message that if you don't identify with your body/being a woman/ being a mother you aren't really a proper woman.

Give me a proper, experienced midwife such as those that supported me during my pregnancies and labours. This was, of course, before the concept of 'gender identity' had become the latest post modernistic fad.

I think we need to be treating this ideology like a religion. Do I understand that to some believers god was the father, the son and the Holy Spirit? Yes. I understand that. Does that resonate with me in any way and link to any beliefs that I have. No it doesn’t. Can I respect those who hold those beliefs? Yes I can and within my job can I use the appropriate language to show that respect ? Yes I can.

Once we approach it like that it’s easy.

Yes a proper experienced midwife would be giving that individualised care to trans and NB maternity users too. They wouldn't argue with them about their identity during labour or anything like that.

Do you think I should just use "breastfeeding" anyway to them? Knowing it goes against their cultural values and will cause offence, or discomfort or distress? Shall I just say fuck you and what you think about your own body and baby, use what I think instead?

No, and I have already made it very clear that care needs to be individualised.

But what you should also not be doing is using 'nursing' generally, because as you say (and I completely agree), it is confusing (some people also use 'nursing' to just mean just holding a baby) and gives the impression that everyone needs to shy away from mentioning breasts.

Thank you - that is a very good example of why words are important.

I imagine these modest women may feel more comfortable with the term 'mother's milk' though?

Nobody is giving women that impression. Some women may already feel like that and pregnancy may heighten their dysphoria. That's something we are taught.

Nobody is giving women that impression. Some women may already feel like that and pregnancy may heighten their dysphoria. That's something we are taught.

I am more than happy to be referred to as a woman if the word "women" is meaning simply referring to adult female people.

I am not happy to be referred to as a woman in the phrase "women and trans men" because labelling me a "woman" in that context is making an incorrect assumption about where I position myself or want to be positioned relative to the sexist gender constructions applied to my sex.

It is not at all clear to me why respecting trans men's identity by disrespecting mine is ok but the other way round is not. Why is saying "No this is not me" being "riled up" when it's me but not when it's a trans man?

(In the genderist neo-sexist framework I actually identify as "an agender person of female biology", although frankly I find having to put that much effort into justifying why someone should not apply gender stereotypes to me pretty damn offsensive in its own right. And I think the utter sexism of it is a good reason to get "riled up").

No because that sounds weird. Nobody says that. We just say breastmilk or milk. We are actually told not to refer to women as "mum" but by their names, as just becoming "mum" and then "Sophie's mum" is dehumanising. Adjustment disorder in new parents is a big thing. So "your milk" would be preferred to "mother's milk".

Just to re-iterate, Bristol Council are not concerning themselves with individualised care, their advice relates to all communication.

“We strongly advise the use of more inclusive language such as using ‘they/them’ to refer to all individuals, or include other identities to reflect the diversity of individuals who access maternity or paternity services,” officials said.
“This could include ‘people with ovaries’ or the term ‘people who use paternity services’. We also recognise that individuals may not identify with the word maternity and prefer paternity as it is gender neutral."

But they’re still women, adult human females, as they are making very clear by having a baby. Men can’t have babies, being adult human males.

This makes no sense. You are a woman and therefore covered by "woman". Your fixation on other women (in our opinion they are women) preferring to be called "trans men" shouldn't bother you if your term (women) has been used to. You need to learn to mind your own business.

Great and that's an opinion I share..it would be wholly inappropriate to express my opinions at work, especially by arguing with maternity service user about their identity and refusing to use the terms they prefer. I should be struck off for that because what other opinions will I choose to do that for..what if I believe the partner of someone who has had sperm donation to conceive isnt really the dad so I choose to always call him the step, legal or adoptive father to show that I don't see him as the "real dad"? Or is it just anti trans opinions when I should be allowed to do this?

What if I started telling women that have egg donation that they are the gestational mother and always refer to them that way? Never just mum, but gestational mother. Or tummy mummy (implying your real mummy is out there somewhere else).

They are giving that impression to women if they are describing them as 'women and pregnant people'.

Could you at least acknowledge that this would be very problematic to recently arriving heterosexual immigrants that are just learning the language and already under stressful circumstances? AND, what if these immigrants oppose your opposition and decide to protest your protests? Which marginalized group should we defend?

They likely went into pregnancy not identifying as a woman. They didnt become pregnant and then think "woman" doesn't apply to them.

"Chest Feeding" has to be one of the most hideous terms going.

I have asked to see the actual document they said this on but apparently it isnt released or something. So far it seems like people saying that this is what was said.

Dont use it then.

I'm a woman, Ive given birth to three children and had an EMCS for the fourth. I do not have ovaries.

That's basically how I see it. I will do whatever I know to do to support someone's religious and spiritual beliefs in my capacity as a midwife. I think it's all a load of tosh personally.

I genuinely don't understand why it doesn't make sense.

In the context of 'women and trans men', 'woman' can only have a gendered meaning, and I think doesn't apply to most of the regular posters on this board. It is restricted to people who identify with femininity (whatever that subjectively means to them), and logically includes men, so doesn't have much to do with maternity services.

Woman can either mean adult female and relate to sex (reproductive role) or relate to gender identity, but it can't mean both at the same time and still retain its meaning.

Again, I understand that you need to provide personalised care to many, many people, whether they are a jehovah's witness a woman who is likely to have her children taken into care. Please use whatever language or explanation gets them through the day - this thread is about general language used for all women.