Rising Christian nationalism: a threat to us all

[IwantToRetire]

Article by Humanist UK, so doesn't really reflect on the impact on women although does mention abortion rights.

But I do think that our politics are far more influenced by the US, not for any deep reasons, but so much of our TV is now americanised.

And some of the fundamentalist UD christian groups have very regressive attitude towards women.

https://humanists.uk/2025/09/17/rising-christian-nationalism-a-threat-to-us-all/

No but we are talking about Christian fundamentalists when across the world Christians are being persecuted ( and often become refugees) as a result of persecution by Islamist and other fundamentalist groups. Far more are victims of fundamentalism than there are Christian fundamentalists.

Confused. I’ve been told off by another poster because apparently this thread is about Christianity in the UK.

I think the scientific also comes into play in that debate too. We all know, or at least should, that life begins at conception, so I think the only argument worth having is you either value human life, or you don't.

Sowell is quite a contraversial character, and even referencing his works sends people into a frenzy of calling it racist (they ignore the irony that he's black himself).

He believed there were and are deeply rooted reasons, which we are not yet mature enough as a population, as to why white people seem to always flourish to a greater extent. His works are very well written and researched, a true modern thinker.

Simplistic fallacy.

You obviously have no logical argument to present against that, which is why you couldn't mange more than two words. I appreciate that effort though.

I think more there already was a long and quiet nuanced discussion on this earlier on the thread. I don't like "read the full thread" police, but equally it's not very interesting to go round and round and over the same issues and arguments every time a new poster comes by. It makes threads too vulnerable to derailling and the hairy handed.

This is an interesting but long article. It shows the importance of context and analysis. There's far too much just plucking a verse and applying it literally.

https://www.gaymarriageandthebible.com/the-death-penalty-in-leviticus-20

I'm not talking about the UK.

When the OP said 'us all' I assumed it meant us all.

I'm appalled by the ever increasing violence against Christians in Africa, who are 'us' too.

If you are a Christian then the Christians being attacked in Nigeria are us, but also so are all human beings. Doesn't mean you have to mention everyone every time you try to discuss specific issues. But this tribalism of "Christians like us" is very... UnChristian.

Edited because I posted too soon: I don't think there's anything wrong with fundraising for say persecuted Christians in China, or Palestinian Christians, or Nigerian Christians specifically

I meant 'humans like us'. I was assuming, again, that 'us all' meant 'us all'.

I'm appalled at the growth of sectarian violence, in Africa and elsewhere.

Agree, I think that there are increasingly divisive movements springing up across the globe. There have always been problems in some areas, and tense situations in others. But I think a number of forces, some of them natural (resource shortage) some technical (the internet) are exacerbating existing fractures. And there are also powerful rich people fanning the flames for their own purposes..I can't do much practical to support people in Africa except donate money or pray, but in this country I think we also have a responsibility to push back on deliberately divisive narratives (that's not the same as shutting down people with legitimate concerns or issues).

Going back to Tommy Robinson and Christian Nationalism, I think 'Christianity' is being used as a synonym for western culture, in opposition to muslim culture, and including 'American' culture, but excluding 'the libs' and probably the Church of England.

I'm not sure where the majority of Christians, who don't live in Europe or North America, fit into all of this.

If 'us all' means the 150k people in Humanists UK I unfortunately start thinking of the only person I knew (an English bloke) who insisted on everyone knowing he was a card-carrying member and was very smug about his superiority to religious believers. In many ways a pleasant, apparently kind man, he was the only person I've come across who knew, and pointed out (disapprovingly), which people working in our field were Jewish, and to what extent they followed Kosher food rules. Which was disturbing. Then I heard he'd been sentenced to more than a year in prison for disseminating child sex abuse images.

I know there was only one of him and he is no more typical of Humanists than sexually abusive priests are typical of all Catholics. But I find the discussion more interesting if 'us all' isn't limited to them.

I wouldn't look to Tommy for a coherent worldview. Apart from anything else, most of his fanbase is online and American, so he pivots to whatever he thinks is going to get him onto the big American podcasts.

Having said that, and bearing in mind Tommy is very unpopular but his last rally was five times bigger than what he normally gets, I think there are lots of people with lots of grievances who, whatever their reservations about Tommy latched onto the opportunity to show their displeasure with the way society is going. Some of that is anxiety over culture/immigration, where religion can be a synonym.

Some of it might even be directly religion related. But I love how real life throws up curveballs.

Large parts of the American left have spent ten years hallucinating that the thoroughly irreligious Donald Trump is going to impose theocracy. He hasn't done it yet, but they get more and more fearful that he's really going to do it this time. Those parts of the British cultural left who take their cues from America - looking at you, Humanist Association - are now hallucinating that Nigel Farage (!) is poised to introduce theocracy in the UK. I don't think this is very serious analysis.

The nearest thing we've had to theocrats in mainland UK politics (Northern Ireland is its own thing of course) is the Christian Peoples Alliance, who have faded from view in recent years but once managed to, er, elect councillors in Newham. Which is not exactly a stronghold of MAGA politics but has quite a lot of African Christians.

Meanwhile the new Home Secretary, Shabana Mahmood, is a Muslim woman who wants to restrict immigration, castrate nonces and end two tier justice. We're in the interesting position where the left is denouncing Mahmood as a racist (!!!) while right wing pundits like Trevor Kavanagh are bigging her up as the leader Labour needs.

Real life confounds Tommy and it also confounds Tommy's critics.

I'm pretty sure the egg and the sperm are alive before conception.

Conception is the point at which conception happens. The point at which there is a living human being is much more debatable, but I can see a strong argument to be "when they take their first breath outside of the body" (which, of course, does not mean I support abortion at 8.5 months).

The levels of disgust I feel for your post are truly off the scale... you are effectively saying any woman who has an abortion is as bad as Hitler or any mass murderer (IMHO).

I hope you're right. I agree a lot of people on the March had legitimate concerns but I will always disagree with people who by choice went marching after a man who did this.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=www.theguardian.com/world/2025/aug/20/family-in-fear-after-tommy-robinson-shares-video-of-black-man-with-white-granddaughters&ved=2ahUKEwj9iaTqlf6PAxXOU0EAHdUMOzsQFnoECA0QAQ&usg=AOvVaw2J_14hm9agVSqhNlL4rgxC

Or these crimes for that matter : I don't believe they can all be trumped-up charges

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Robinson
The libel against the Syrian refugee boy was particularly bad.

Until science can pinpoint when conception is (and it can't -yet) we don't all have to agree that life begins at it.

I try not to get into discussions about Tommy, although his prominence is interesting, because I don't support him, and I keep saying I don't support him, but that never discourages posters from insinuating that I support him.

Which, as we know from the "antifa" crowd, is painting a target on a person's back.

If it matters, if you pay attention to the minuscule UK far right - and they're so irrelevant it's hardly worth it - they are almost unanimously convinced that Tommy is some kind of MI5 plant. There have been too many incidents where his supporters all get arrested and he turns up a week later in Ayia Napa.

But, as I say, it's a discussion I prefer not to get into, because it usually results in me being lambasted by the kind of "feminists" who are perfectly fine with the unions funnelling money to Martin James Smith and his friends. Look them up.

I apologise, I didn't express myself very clearly. What I meant was that I didn't think people with immigration concerns should have gone marching with Tommy. Why can't someone reasonable organise a March?

I know most people probably weren't especially keen on him, and I understand that you aren't. I didn't want to suggest that you support TR. I myself wish large scale immigration had ended back in 2000, I understand the negative effects. It's awful for people with those concerns to be lumped in with neo-Nazis etc (who ofc a tiny group anway, thankfully)

I think I saw a post from you before about the SWP rape cases. Vile. I suppose any organisation with such rigid views and worship of certain people will end up offering safe harbour to predators...

I recommend Aidan Beatty's book The Party is Always Right, about Gerry Healy and the Workers Revolutionary Party. It's wild to think how much of the UK acting profession was in or around the WRP in the 1970s. This probably influences my opinion on how seriously to take actors when they speak out on politics.

When it comes to the SWP scandals, you probably don't want to get me started because I personally know a lot of the people involved. Some of whom are popping up in connection with the new Jeremy Corbyn/Zarah Sultana vehicle. I have strong opinions about these people.

Trust me though, a cult of personality can be formed around the most unlikely individuals.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m002kcyy

Thank you, that sounds very useful to know about. Terrifying.

As to actors getting involved in politics, I don't think it's always bad, though too often it devolves into uninformed radical chic. I think it's better though if they get involved in more charity-based work, some actors who do that seem to actually know something about the issue and do genuine work for it. Normally these are ones who aren't A-List and keep a more down-to-earth lifestyle.

I know Vanessa Redgrave was absolutely horrible in her defence of Gerry Healy, and I sadly suspect she wasn't alone...

Can I ask if you could name some of the people involved in these scandals? I'm not likely to vote for YP, heaven knows, but I think it's important to be aware. I'm at uni & some people I know seem a bit bedazzled by Corbyn. I think it's important to be aware of dangerous individuals involved in cover ups & sex offences .

Definitely cults of personality can be very hard to understand...

Until science can pinpoint when death is (and it can't - yet) we don't all have to agree that life ends at it.

Apologies for the sarcasm; I just don't think that we have to know exactly at what point we decide that life starts and ends in order to have opinions on difficult ethical issues. I'm wary of expressing an opinion on this in a feminist space, but for the little it's worth, my current view is that the foetus gains human value continuously from conception to birth, or perhaps from conception to viability (as a premature birth results in a baby just as valuable as a full term one). I therefore have very little problem with the "morning after pill" and considerable problem with a late-term abortion (though it may be justifiable under some circumstances). Though I would much prefer there to be fewer abortions through avoiding unwanted pregnancies, I accept that the law is the law. If an abortion is to occur, the earlier the better.