Rising Christian nationalism: a threat to us all

[IwantToRetire]

Article by Humanist UK, so doesn't really reflect on the impact on women although does mention abortion rights.

But I do think that our politics are far more influenced by the US, not for any deep reasons, but so much of our TV is now americanised.

And some of the fundamentalist UD christian groups have very regressive attitude towards women.

https://humanists.uk/2025/09/17/rising-christian-nationalism-a-threat-to-us-all/

Máire MacNeill, in addition to being a fabulous scholar who gave us a new way of looking at Irish calendar customs, also left the National Gallery of Ireland a collection of art including paintings by Pablo Picasso and Juan Gris.

Her dad Eoin, also a fine historian (who may have done a few other things) would have been very proud.

BTW, since we've been talking about early medieval Ireland, if anyone has the chance to see the Words on the Wave exhibition in the National Museum, you still have a month. Manuscripts written by Irish scribes on Irish cattle skins that have been in the monastic library in St Gall in Switzerland since the 8th century back on loan, displayed with loads of supporting material from Ireland. Go.

You're right about the aristocracy. After 1000 years of being illegal, Henry VIII legalized first-cousin marriage in England in 1540, partly to allow his marriage to Catherine Howard. It's still legal today.
However I doubt it suddenly became the fashion across society.
Today it is less than 1 percent in Europe. Far lower than many other countries.

There's certainly an issue with immigrant pakistani communities. I'm not sure the extent the problems are about a first cousin marriage, or whether it is more about simple bad luck, or just doing it generation after generation. The latter is certainly a problem.

Either way it should be discouraged.

First cousin marriage is common among Irish Travellers.

What do you mean by 'police harassment of street preachers'? Is this a reference to prayer outside abortion clinics? That is a complex case I haven't read much on yet. AFAIK preachers in general aren't being harassed?

Yes, think of Mansfield Park, where at the start, the thought of Fanny marrying a Bertram cousin is frowned on , but bc they've been raised as siblings, not because they are first cousins. And ofc she marries Edmund at the end. 🤮 Irl, Austen's brother Henry married their first cousin Eliza. Darwin was another who married a cousin. And obvs cousins marrying was common among royalty across Europe until relatively recently.

It was never as common as Pakistan, but it was accepted esp among upper classes until post-WW1. Thank goodness things have changed!

journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/036319908601100305

Would this tie in with the way older customs like honour and clan-ties are still common (arguably not always to good effect)? Unless my info is wrong (I've been researching Romany gypsies recently & tangentially read some info on Irish travellers)

That sounds about right. A tough life, particularly for women.

Yes, and countries like Spain & Italy have strong traditions of closeness to extended family.

Yes...☹️ I was reading Thomas Sowell recently & he argued that traveller & similar customs being imported by Scottish & Irish migrants to some rural areas of the Southern US are part of the reason for those areas traditionally having more issues. Obviously it's complex but it sounded at least somewhat plausible.

Exactly. Obvs it was different from forced marriage but traditionally (and not just in the upper classes) families have had a LOT of authority over who marries who,especially women.

Exactly. Obvs it was different from forced marriage but traditionally (and not just in the upper classes) families have had a LOT of authority over who marries who,especially women.

Even in Downton Abbey, it's just presented as the most logical way to enable Mary to inherit.

I wasn't refering to abortion clinic, though I'm on the fence re the silent prayer cases.
There have been several arrests of street preachers, haven't got a list.

Met Police payout after Southgate preacher's wrongful arrest - BBC News https://share.google/3GXVjIKf9aTnY5MHC

Christian preacher vindicated after arrest for questioning Qur'an - Christian Concern https://share.google/89iV1KPk3yxcuMwvE
Police in UK compensate preacher for unlawful arrest, jailing - Christian Daily International https://share.google/AmEe7wpHav2C3remC

Wrongfully arrested and handcuffed: Innocent pastor successfully settles claim against police over ‘non-crime hate incident’ - The Christian Institute https://share.google/soxOa98PXnBWjes3N

I'd agree for the most part - but arguably the attitude of all 3 Abrahamic religions has been complex towards the issues of slavery & outsiders,including sexual slavery. The OT after all allows captured women to be 'married', ok, they're married rather than concubines, but still not exactly ideal.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy%2021%3A10-23%3A8&version=NIV;KJV#:~:text=When%20you%20go%20to%20war,take%20her%20as%20your%20wife.&text=Bring%20her%20into%20your%20home,she%20shall%20be%20your%20wife.&text=If%20you%20are%20not%20pleased,since%20you%20have%20dishonored%20her.

Slavery is also condoned in the OT- Israelite slaves are treated more leniency, though there are guidelines for both, and slaves who refuse conversion (which would free them) can be sold to non Jewish owners. It's mainly voluntary rather than chattel slavery, but still, again, not very pleasant. And non Hebrew slaves CAN be owned permanently, as well as left to heirs.

Jesus & the NT certainly can be used to argue against slavery, but Jesus does affirm the OT & Paul orders slaves to obey their masters. The NT certainly encourages compassion to slaves, but it doesn't treat slavery itself as wrong.

Islam forbids the prostitution of female slaves but does allow concubinage, and obvs allows slavery itself, though freeing slaves is encouraged.

The OT does include instances where killing civilians is permitted, though this is the exception (eg. The Canaanites).

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=www.equip.org/articles/god-old-testament-proponent-total-war-noncombatants/%23:~:text%3DVerses%252013%2520and%252014%2520lay,land%2520God%2520had%2520given%2520Israel.&ved=2ahUKEwj86sa25PmPAxUET0EAHfPNAHQQzsoNegQICRAO&usg=AOvVaw2U9dCjvq9mcMcFSZ6m7P7

Psalm 137 ('by the rivers of Babylon', which ends with 'happy is he who dashes thy little ones against the stones',) is disturbing in that it seems to call for total war, though arguably it probably should be taken more as a cry of grief than an instruction)

Aha, I see, thank you. Yes, those are all very wrong. Interesting to see 3 of the 4 involved Islam. The right to preach & to offend is important for everyone. We have Jehovah's Witnesses who hand out The Watchtower near my home- I strongly disapprove of their organisation but I believe in their right to do so.

So the small number of Irish Travellers who emigrated to the US, and the even smaller number who settled in the rural Southern states contributed to 'issues' there?

Or is he implicating all Irish migrants in this importation of problematic Traveller customs? Irish migrants were either Travellers or they were settled people, and I don't see how settled Irish migrants could 'import' Traveller customs if they were not Travellers.

It's a confusing suggestion, but in fairness to the author I haven't read the book.

Danny Kruger's defection to Reform comes with a manifesto for Christian nationalism attached.

He claims England (and I stress, England) was consciously founded as a Christian nation, that secularism has failed, and that “woke” must be destroyed.

This is not history but myth-making designed to pit Christians against others and distract from economic collapse with culture wars.
The agenda is clear: re-Christianise public life, rewrite education, roll back equality.

The real choice we face is not between Christian nationalism and a “godless desert,” but between exclusionary myths and a politics of pluralism, equality, and care.

Continues at https://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2025/09/16/danny-kruger-christian-nationalism-and-the-threat-from-reform/

Sorry, to clarify he seemed to be attributing the issues to aspects of the culture of SOME Irish immigrants (thinking back, he seemed to be describing immigrants who had some similar cultural features as travellers, but I don't think he necessarily meant travellers, or not only travellers). He didn't just refer to Irish immigrants either, he also referenced some immigrants from some areas of Wales & Scotland (particularly Ulster and the borderlands).

I understand the book's thesis sounds offensive but he wasn't blaming ALL members of those groups or generalising but pointing out specific issues which did seem to have been transferred in some cases. I was a bit skeptical but apparently other researchers think the thesis has validity.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Rednecks_and_White_Liberals

Thank you. I have some info on US Christian nationalism myself. I DO think there is some scaremongering, but I ALSO think there is ar least SOME reason to be concerned.

I'm afraid I think Dickie Murphy is scaremongering here, whether consciously or because he's spent too long hanging out with the Humanist Association.

Danny Kruger is a religious man, and he makes no secret of it. He's also got a background as a historian. Reflecting on the Christian roots of the country, and worrying about what comes after if they disappear, is completely in character for him and a completely legitimate thing to say.

This, however, is the starting point for Dickie to hallucinate a very detailed policy prospectus which he thinks follows logically from us allowing Christians to be in parliament. I'm afraid I don't take very seriously the predictions of someone who unironically describes Reform as "fascist", which not even the lunatics at Socialist Worker do.

Well, I found that indigestable but not necessarily objectionable.
I can't see where he wants roll back equality and the destruction of 'woke' is on my agenda too.

The Secular Society wrote about Christian Nationalism recently in their newsletter. Hopefully this will work:

https://www.secularism.org.uk/opinion/2025/09/christian-nationalism-threatens-democracy-secularism-protects-it

'For over a thousand years, Europe was dominated by a Church that defended hierarchy, not liberty. Medieval Christendom wasn't a cradle of democracy; it was a theocracy that demanded obedience. Kings claimed a "divine right" to rule, while those who challenged religious authority were branded heretics and often killed. Church courts stifled free thought, and church leaders gave their blessing to absolute monarchy. The Inquisition didn't protect civil liberties; it crushed them.
The roots of modern liberal democracy lie in the Enlightenment, when thinkers began to challenge the authority of both monarchs and priests. John Locke argued that governments need the consent of the governed and that religious authority has no place in law. Voltaire ridiculed clerical power and demanded freedom of conscience. Thomas Paine, a key voice of the American Revolution, fiercely attacked Christianity as a system of tyranny and superstition.'