Rape and abuse survivors clash with convicted mens’ rights group outside Scottish Parliament

[IwantToRetire]

Members of Justice for Innocent Men Scotland (JIMS) were met with a counter protest as they campaigned against “unfair trials” at the Scottish Parliament on Tuesday.

Members of Justice for Innocent Men Scotland (JIMS), who have been slammed for targeting women speaking out on abuse, planned a “silent protest” at Holyrood on Tuesday, campaigning against "unfair trials" in Scotland.

But the 100-strong group turned out with a piper and megaphone to be met with chants of “shame on you” from a group representing victims of abuse, led by rape survivor Ellie Wilson.

Article in full at https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/rape-abuse-survivors-clash-convicted-35875960

Poor little rapey menz - not being allowed to carry on with their rapey behaviour. Such a hardship. It’s political correctness gone mad I tell yer.

Jeeesus - just when you thought the world couldn’t get more fucked up you get a bunch of men convicted of some of the most heinous crimes (and their supporters) protesting how unfair it is that they got caught. At least they’re showing their faces so women can avoid them I guess.

The world is going mad.

More men drowning out women's voices with loud music, I'm starting to sense a pattern. 🤬🤮🤯

I am speechless!

"It was an interesting choice for The Herald to platform an extremist group. This woman’s partner is a convicted rapist who was found guilty of attacks against 4 women and a child but she believes jailing men for rape is a plot to “destroy the birth rate”. Why not ask about that?"

https://x.com/ellieokwilson/status/1965431676752040223?t=HJ4iVcW82IlNhDgdYZKGXA&s=19

Me too. 😮

Jesus Christ. The prosecution and conviction rate for rape is so low already (Home Office statistics for the year ending March 2024 indicated that the proportion of rape offences assigned a charge/summons outcome was 2.6%, https://lordslibrary.parliament.uk/rape-levels-of-prosecutions/).

These men must be particularly heinous monsters.

Bloody hell.
if there really is some issue with the Scottish legal system at the moment which might result in unsafe convictions, these protestors need to take it up with the legal system. Not with women who are victims of rape and abuse ffs!
It reads a lot like an extreme case of DARVO.

The very nature of rape - often no witnesses, lack of corroboration - means that the bar for "beyond reasonable doubt" is already high. I very much doubt that prisons are full of innocent men convicted of rape.

$ICK ❗

Shocking story of a rapist who faked suicide and disappeared. And Scottish police arrested one of his victims (who suspected he had faked the suicide) for harrassing the rapist's family online.

https://x.com/RussellFindlay1/status/1965707696356970663?t=xoTYdM3AjW3REvwGxFTjKA&s=19

In the past, I would have agreed 100% But both personally and professionally, I’ve now seen how the law is being applied in Scotland and how unfairly and easily men are being convicted under the current system.

I’ve always argued for changes to stop women from being disbelieved, discredited, or torn apart in court with misogynistic language. Victims deserve to be heard and respected. Unfortunately, however, Sections 24 and 25 have completely reshaped the legal process in ways that are deeply troubling.

Right now, men can be convicted on just two grounds: “sex evidenced” and “distress expressed.” In practice, this has meant that evidence which strongly suggests sex was consensual such as text messages contradicting the allegation is being blocked from court. Even cases that never should have gone to trial are leading to convictions.

I’ve also seen situations where women who wanted to withdraw their allegations were threatened with perjury charges, and where major inconsistencies in accusers’ stories were not allowed to be presented in court. It is frightening to see how this is being used.

Yes, convictions have increased — but at what cost? This approach is harmful not only to the men wrongfully accused, but also to genuine victims, who will face backlash when the public begins to lose trust in the system.

As a parent of two daughters and a son, this terrifies me. I want my daughters to know that if they are ever assaulted, the law will protect them and allow them to seek justice without being degraded, dismissed, or torn apart on the stand. But I also want my son who has been raised to understand that only enthusiastic consent is consent to be safe from false allegations and the risk of wrongful conviction

The balance has a long way to go before it is tipped in favour of the victim.
However, I share Zanzabar's commitment to even-handed justice and I would like to know about real cases where the kind of miscarriages of justice Zanzabar refers to have actually happened, and what appeals process has been followed in those individual cases.

Not all rape cases are 'he says/she says' and I'd like to know what percentage of cases rely on the kind of evidence that Zanzabar refers to.

In short, I'd want to hear an informed legal opinion on this important issue before I formed an opinion about the pendulum allegedly swinging too far in favour of the victim.

Absolutely and I definitely don’t want to return to a system that makes reporting SA seem pointless, as someone who has been there. I don’t even think that the pendulum has necessary swung too far in favour of the victim. Instead I think that there is too few safeguards for the falsely accused, mostly around the presentation of clear evidence that contradicts the accusers allegations. The appeals process is lengthy and my experiences are anecdotal but very real to me. Until very recently I personally had no idea that these changes had even occurred or that anything had changed, so I’d guess that we will see the results of appeals for this current increase in convictions, in a year or two.

it is section 274/275. I am one of the women in the counter protest group. We are called Justice for every mistreated survivor. If you have a look at our social media on facebook, instagram and TikTok you will see what we face as victims of rape. JIMS has harassed and abused us online after securing convictions. My rapist got 17 years after a unanimous verdict on 9 charges. Let me tell you the amount of investigation and evidence needed. But still they tell me I did it for money. What money? We stood there in smaller numbers because we have only just found one another 6 weeks ago, but we continue to grow. JIMS is an extremist group who humiliated victims because it is their partners and sons convicted. The shame should never lie with us, the shame is the rapists and anyone who supports them condones violence against women. It was an extremely difficult thing for us to do on Tuesday. They tried very hard to silence us.

@Novictimblaming I’m so sorry for what you have been through.

Were JIMs advertising their planned protest, so you knew you needed to be there to counter it?

It’s appalling that the very few men wrongly convicted can’t protest their situation without the scum of the earth joining in.
Edit- obviously I mean rapists and abusers are the scum of the earth! Just for absolute clarity!

You are very brave @Novictimblaming

Yes they advertised it, but as a silent protest. They were far from silent. They claim thousands of innocent men are being thrown into prisons for rape to decrease the birth rate. 160 men were convicted last year out of thousands of reports of rape. It’s victims being let down. We are a part of a group called JEMS, justice for every mistreated survivor. We are on Facebook, instagram and TikTok, they’ll give you an idea what we are facing. By all means they can argue law, but the narratives they use are set to humiliate victims and we stand strongly against that xx

Novictimblaming I'm sorry for what you went through, and that the harm is being continued by these activists.

If they had a grain of human decency, they would realise how delicate and painful this subject is, and pursue their campaign in a more focused, thoughtful and dignified way, instead of large catch-all public demos like this which inevitably will include support for convicted rapists, convicted beyond a shadow of a doubt.
Harassment of survivors is just unforgiveable.

I’m so sorry for what you went through. I wasn’t able to pursue justice in my own case, and I’m not connected to the group Jims, so I can’t speak for them.

Recently, though, I witnessed a trial where an innocent man was convicted because key evidence was not allowed to be heard by the jury. As a sexual assault survivor and the mother of a teenage son, I want women to have the opportunity for justice that I never had — and I want to protect my son from the kind of frightening injustice I just saw with my own eyes

I thought I would come back to this post as the more I learn and see of the group JIMS the sadder I am that this is the group that seems to be representing those affected by the application of 274/275 There doesn’t seem to be much hope for those who are truly impacted by this as the only group out there publicising it aren’t the kind of group most would want to associate with.

I'm disgusted by the conduct of JIMS. If their fight is for fair trials then law makers and government should be who they take issue with, not survivors. It is not their place to decide who gives off 'victim vibes' - a genuine quote from their founder Marzenka. Their 'evidence' seems to be rooted in misogyny and what a 'real victim' should look and act like. Disgraceful that this group are given a platform and well done to JEMS for exposing their behaviour - would thoroughly recommend checking out the JEMS tik tok for plenty evidence of victim blaming and misogyny from JIMS.

A lot of interesting activity re JIMS on LinkedIn and X over the weekend!

I've been doing a bit of amateur research into these changes, which men's rights groups claim are unfair to men accused of rape. I don't know much about UK law, and I'd really appreciate if someone with legal expertise could explain what exactly the changes involve.

As far as I can see, the rules in Scotland about what can be taken as
'corroborated evidence' in rape cases has been brought in line with the rest of the UK, e.g. if a woman tells a friend that she has been raped shortly afterwards, it is now accepted as corroboration although it is not from a second source.
It is also now accepted that whether or not a complainant appears distressed is irrelevant, as this is not always the response to trauma.

So I think to claim that the changes mean that 'men can be convicted on just two grounds: “sex evidenced” and “distress expressed.”' is oversimplifying.
I don't believe it's simply a matter of a woman saying 'That man raped me and I was seen to be distressed' - I assume a whole case still has to be built up against the accused, involving a whole body of evidence like medical evidence, witness statements, etc. not just the word of the accuser.

In short, I'm not sure that the changes in the law in Scotland make rape trials there any more liable to miscarriages of justice than in the rest of the UK.

But as I said, this is just an amateur attempt to understand the exact nature of the changes, and if someone could correct what I've said here, or fill in the gaps, that would be great thanks.

New changes to corroboration rules - an explainer (October 2023)

Up until now, every piece of evidence for every part of a crime must be backed up by another piece. This is corroboration. This is an issue which particularly affects sexual crime cases. Up until this week, for a rape to be prosecuted in Scotland, corroboration was needed for each element of the crime, so lack of consent, the identity of the accused, and penetration all had to be separately corroborated.

Last week, the High Court of Justiciary Appeal published a judgement about how corroboration is used in Scottish criminal trials. The judgement was published after the Lord Advocate had asked the Court to review how corroboration is used, specifically, requirements for corroboration in sexual offence cases.

This judgment sets out that from now, while corroboration is still required, there is no requirement to prove the separate elements of a crime by corroborated evidence. This is a seismic change, and one we hope will improve access to justice in relation to rape and sexual abuse.

https://www.rapecrisisscotland.org.uk/news/news/new-changes-to-corroboration-rules---an-explainer/

Landmark judgment on corroboration in sexual offence cases (October 2024)

A judgement from nine senior judges has been issued today which transforms the approach to corroboration in sexual offence cases in Scotland. This follows on from a previous Lord Advocate’s reference last October,

https://www.rapecrisisscotland.org.uk/news/news/landmark-judgment-on-corroboration-in-sexual-offence-cases/

Protesting for rapists rights?? Has the world gone mad?

I think, from memory, that it was the norm in the past to prove rape to there had to be corroboration ie a woman's word was not enough.

So maybe this is more about Scotland lagging behind in making the law more up to date.

Not forgetting it is within living memory that there was no rape in marriage according to the law.