Feminist activist sent to prison for ‘Allah is lesbian’ T-shirt - Morocco

[IwantToRetire]

A feminist activist has been sent to prison for two-and-a-half years because of messages on a T-shirt she wore in a selfie posted online.

The shirt featured the word “Allah” in Arabic, followed by the words “is lesbian” in English.

Ibtissam Lachgar was charged with blasphemy and with disseminating the image online.

She was found guilty of violating part of Morocco’s criminal code that outlaws offending the monarchy or Islam, her lawyer, Naïma El Guellaf, said.

A member of Ms Lachgar’s legal team said they plan to appeal the conviction.

Article continues at https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/morocco-islam-prison-ibtissam-lachgar-b2819995.html

I think it's a valid and interesting political move and she surely fully expected to be arrested.

The point, I expect, is to create a significant court case which defines the limits of free speech in relation to blasphemy laws.

What the courts will decide, who knows, but this is one way contested issues in a society are dealt with.

I don't think it's appropriate for outsiders and visitors to do these things while in a differernt country. It muddies the waters as well as being rather paternalistic in many cases.

Yes, I think quite a few people commenting probably thought she was a foreigner walking in. I wish they'd read the article properly!

Still, I do think that it's worrying how people are seemingly defending blasphemy laws. It reminds me of Markus Fakana, the 18yo who was imprisoned in Dubai for consensual sex with a 17yo. Quite a few posts on threads about it were defending the imprisonment and seemed unconcerned by how draconian the law was.. (Luckily Markus is free now).

Sometimes I wonder if it's an effect of fundamentalist propaganda. I'm probs over suspicious, - otoh a lot of Western people seem brainwashed by Hamas. We know for instance they are trying to influence opinion by funding Middle Eastern studies uni courses in America (funding via sympathetic countries,, obvs not directly from Hamas)

Remember that anyone can post on this board. We can't stop them unless they break Mumsnet rules of engagement, and in most cases people don't want to stop them; they'd rather have a discussion.
We get posters who are neither gender critical nor feminist, and a few of them are here purely to annoy.

I'm not.

Just a FYI
Being alone with a man can get one arrested there.

The Idea that there should be ony one way to worship is imo a key driver in removing any chance of education from afghan women. Keeping women uneducated removes a drive for change.

Women who protest with small things and are repressed by the State show the power inbalance as (in most cases) they risk more.

Well, it’s certainly not a decision I would make.

@AliasGrace47 im currently reading Alias Grace

I love that book, as you might have guessed 🤣 What do you think of it?

Margaret Attwood has written a lot of good books, it's a shame quite a few people only know The Handmaid's Tale. Imo The Blind Assassin, Oryx & Crake & Cat's Eye were all good.

Nor would I! But I'm glad there are people who do. It's like unjust laws anywhere, someone has to start & it's somewhat easier then for others to follow, hopefully..

Morocco is quite moderate apparently, according to the article

Then again, moderate in comparison to Saudi Arabia doesnt mean much

So I can see that she is trying to bring about change for gays and lesbians

Maybe Morocco will become more tolerant, and repeal some of the anti same sex couple laws and lead the way for liberalism there

I'm getting older 😭😭 so don't feel incensed by this injustice like I wouldve done during my student days

But I do see what she is trying to do. Hopefully the appeal will go her way. 2.5 years is a lot

A lot of these 'i love going to Dubai on holiday' types were defending his imprisonment 😭😭, saying welp thats the law there, gotta obey it

But they will scream about getting a parking ticket in the uk on their badly parked suv 🙄🙄

Weird group of people

Exactly. Incredible hypocrisy. Even if he HAD known what the law was, which I v much doubt, I can't believe people are defending it as 'Another country, their place, their rules.' Cultural relativism gone much too far...🙄

Surprised at anyone defending this arrest. How depressing.

What’s the bounds of that?

You wouldn’t protest and get arrested for free speech. Is there anything you would protest and get arrested for?
Would you for the vote?
Would you against child marriage?
Would you against genocide?

Because some people wouldn’t, a lot wouldn’t, possibly most. Many say they would who wouldn’t.

Everyone thinks they would stand up to tyranny and wouldn’t. And that isn’t a surprise. The surprise is saying that someone else shouldn’t.

I think it's more complicated than that.

I don't think anyone really thought teenagers should go to jail for sex like that - although it's important to realise the girl was under age, though barely. But in general, people think that if you are going to travel in a foreign country, and be a guest there, it's not reasonable to challenge their beliefs and laws while you do it. If you don't like them, don't go. In that case, it was largely teenagers being clueless plus a vindictive mother, but it's a bit like people who get caught in a place like Singapore with drugs. It's difficult to be very sympathetic.

The other issue is that even for citizens people tend to see a differernce between political action like trying to get laws changed, and just being an asshole. A shirt that says Allah is a lesbian doesn't reflect anyone's actual beliefs, it's totally incoherent. The whole purpose of it is to be offensive.

People in the west, at least in the past, were willing to accept offensive things when they had a greater purpose, or reflect a real belief. This shirt didn't reflect a true belief, but it may have had the purpose of creating a political debate over an important social issue.
But if the whole purpose had been only to be rude and offensive about Islam or another religion? Most people think that even if that should be legal, it's the behaviour of a dickhead.

I agree mostly....otoh to play devil's advocate, maybe the T shirt DID reflect the activists actual belief. Probably not, but not impossible. I read a liberal Muslim woman's blog (Shehnaz Haqqani) where she sometimes refers to God as She and Her. I suspect even gay-accepting believers of any religion would be unhappy at anyone attributing sexuality to God. I'd certainly be unhappy if any Westboro Baptist-type crazy wore a T-Shirt saying 'God is straight'.

I agree the T Shirt was probs not just worn to offend, but to start debate - about free speech over religion, about women and lgb rights too probably, and implicitly, the attitude of Islam & Muslims to them.

Could I ask, would you see Muhammad cartoons like the Jyllands Posten or Charlie Hebedo ones as making a point for a greater purpose, or just being offensive? Obviously the violent response was totally wrong whatever the purpose was.

I think those guys were making a point. Possibly an offensive point, but that is ok.

Yes, I'd agree w that. I didn't think it was a v pleasant way to do (didn't like the things Charlie Hebedo did mocking other religions either). But they definitely have valid points, as the terrible reaction showed all too well....

On the Dubai case, I still think some people seemed worryingly unsympathetic. I see what you mean about places like Singapore.

You think she was being an "asshole" and offensive? Isn't it more offensive that homosexuality is illegal in Morocco because of religious beliefs? Isn't it more offensive people can be jailed for 2.5 years for a belief?

I'm disgusted by the attitudes on this thread.

Funnily enough I've just seen a play entitled "The Last Stand of Mary Whitehouse". She sued Gay Times magazine in the 70s for blasphemy, saying Jesus was gay. This os the exact same thing, 50 years later and women are still pearl clutching about it.

Blasphemy is WORDS. Regimes against homosexuality and free speech are actually harming people and you're sticking up for them!

Why cant that Deity be a Lesbian?

If humans are a reflection of that Deity is why cant it be a belief?

I'm sure TempestTost doesn't agree w those 2 Moroccan laws. She certainly wasn't 'sticking up' for them. What she was saying was that there are various motives for doing what that lady did, and she rightfully recognised that she had a political point, and was NOT just being offensive, and that even if she were, she shouldn't be in prison.

Imo the offensive element is implying God has a sexuality. As I said, I wouldn't be keen on a Westboro-type Christian wearing T-shirts saying 'God is straight'. I find all the 'Jesus is my boyfriend'-type US evangelical stuff v distasteful, ditto the whole Da Vinci code/Jesus Christ Superstar etc stuff about Jesus marrying or at least dating Mary Magdalene. As if she couldn't have been a sincere follower, it has to be sexual bc she's female 🙄

I don't think 'God is female' is offensive, but I expect a lot of Muslims, esp Moroccan ones, would.

Oh, that ridiculous poem, 'The Love That Dares To Speak Its Name'. I read it, it was just trying to be vulgar imo. A bit more interesting take would have been to imply that Jesus had an Achilles-Patroclus style relationship w John. I obvs don't believe that, and I don't think representing God as having a romantic/sexual relationship is ever in good taste, but it would have been better than 'Jesus Cruised Roman Soldiers'. 🙄🙄

I feel a bit sorry for James Kirkup tbf. He was a serious & talented author who wrote a big variety of things, now mostly remembered for a poem he wrote as a joke. Otoh he did choose to write it!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Kirkup

Afaik it's still illegal to print that poem in a paper bc of blasphemy, which I think is wrong, tho I also think no paper should print it, iykwim.

As for Mary Whitehouse, I disagree w her about a lot of things, but I think she had a valid point about the dangers of 'permissive society' given the dreadful porn/kink/sex work cultures now.

Where did I say that?

You didn't. I wanted to ascertain your opinion. Glad to hear you don't.

I didn't really understand, though, why you first commented on whether she was offending Islam- with no word, however, on her courage in challenging these unjust laws in Morocco.