Esther Ghey, school phone ban

[Davros]

I heard her on R4’s Today programme this morning. I thought she was great, really impressive. I wonder how far down the rabbit hole Brianna would have gone if this campaign had been around then.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cvgng2l7d36o.amp

My son's old school had a ban on phones on school premises. I thought it was brilliant. But yes, there were parents who thought their kids should be excluded (generally for stupid reasons).

His new school allows them. Most of the kids love it. The teachers said it means break etc are quieter because everyone is too busy with their head looking at a screen to talk to people. Apart from the real issue of bullying etc, that makes me sad.

I feel for her but at the same time she’s probably the last persons in the world I’d want child rearing advice from.

In the article Brianna’s mum said they would have helped if they’d had them at the time her child attended. The headteacher also said they came in after.

The kids that were there already (so year 8 onwards) got them free. It’s only new starters that paid.

Ah okay, my mistake then! But I’m definitely sure they got them before September 2024!

Gosh that is sad! Children should be running around, chatting, shouting etc at break.

Well, exactly. And while I agree that smart devices (all of them, not just phones) would be better off being completely banned in schools, I can’t help but feel this is a bit of a deflection - but I’m also glad that she’s highlighting exactly how much the internet plays in a child declaring a trans identity, and isn’t going to play the game of making Brianna a trans martyr.

Easy to say but a DF did this and at 15 the DC ran away. You have know idea how difficult it can be ro remove this technology. I have given my DS a brick phone and he will not have a smart phone until he is 16+ and has left the main school environment.

I support a Esther Grey and would also go further and ban smart phones until 17-18 years old.

My dc aren’t allowed their phones in school but the school give them iPads to complete their work on and they have their timetables etc on that.

I’m another one struck by this story. I feel very sorry for this woman and what happened was awful. I also think she comes across very well in a podcast I listened to recently but she clearly wasn’t an effective parent herself and glosses over and minimises a lot of fairly serious indicators that her child’s behaviour was out of control. I’d argue that parents need to get their own houses in order before trying to blame schools and technology and wider society.

Also as we as society use cash less and less kids use their phones to pay for stuff.

Those kids always ran away, bunked off, got into trouble - it wasn't a panacea rasing children before smart phones.

There is a massive difference between banning in schools and banning completely - prohibition never works.

I saw Esther Ghey on the news yesterday and had many of the same thoughts. Her child had such a smartphone addiction that it was causing serious problems in school. Brianna was in isolation - with one of the future murderers - because of persistent discipline issues around phone use. This was way beyond a child who watches Tiktok all break/lunch but puts their phone away when a teacher asks. Brianna was very clearly a young person who was struggling massively with a range of different issues and it's far too simplistic to say that not having a smartphone in school would have solved all those issues.

Yes schools can ban smartphones and use pouches and whatever and that at least means that children are concentrating on their learning and not sending snapchat photos or filming tiktoks. But school is only 9am to 3pm ish and what happens the rest of the time? Parents have to take responsibility too.

Brick phones are enough and as a culture we have sleep walked into a situation where we are exposing our children to things that they cannot control, they cant manage or effectively risk assess etc.

I agree but I remember growing up and the telephone was in the hall and even that was closely monitored. Children generally couldn't chat on there just make arrangements to meet a friend. I believe being constantly connected by a phone is not good at all but a brick phone is a welcome compromise considering what we are up against now.

Jonathan Haidt's book 'The Anxious Generation' points out that one of the hardest things for parents who refuse to allow their kids smart phones is that it frequently leads to situations where at lunch times, everyone else is on their phones and using them to send memes and communicate and the kids without them feel isolated. Having a school wide ban at phones being out of lockers prevents this.

My kids are too young for a phone yet anyway, but at their primaries there's a pledge that parents are encouraged to sign not to buy one. I think it's very sensible to encourage consensus.

Her daughter had been "completely addicted" to her phone and was getting into trouble at school as a result, while trying to restrict her use had been a "constant battle"

I think her mum sums up the situation re smartphones perfectly

My son’s school has phones handed in on arrival, and returned on departure. works well.
Kids need smartphones as most come by train. Timetable is on an app, but they just print it out/copy it down. homework is on an app as well, but they don’t do homework during the school day.
Brickphones would be useless for us - they need to access train times tables, and messenger apps while on the go (there is internet on the train, but phone reception is non existent at school or at the station/on route)

Unfortunately our modern life revolves around technology. My DGS is on phone constantly, his mother gave him a phone for all the reasons already stated at 11 going to high school. Not being used in school is fairly normal these days is it not? Put in bag, switched off, confiscated if used. As others said a particular type of 'smart' phone should be the norm for under 18s. Hugely restricted.

Schools can only do so much, as long as they don't encourage social contagion, and ban school day use of phones ( switch off, put away, removal for transgressions). In other words apply rational common sense.

I'd have more support for Esther's campaign if she stopped referring to her child as a daughter, etc, she had a son, she supported her child in delusional behaviour, that was also encouraged by his online presence. She would have more impact and power by admitting that a combination of factors, including phones/ internet and social contagion led her son to become a victim to sadistic bullies. Sometimes we make poor decisions while trying to keep our loved ones happy. I do feel for her as she tries to make sense of her child's death, but gaslighting others isn't the way to do it.

So the issue wasn’t just school. Would not having the phone 6.5 hours a day solved everything, no.

Some of this feels like putting the responsibility onto schools rather than parents. Brianna obviously had issues and whilst this might have helped slightly wouldn’t have cured the issue, I’m sure they still would have been as addicted outside of school.

Secondary age. There’s a whole spectrum of phone useage at their school- a significant minority with no or brick phones right through to kids with no limits at all on their phone useage. It’s not unusual to have limits. School is very strict on no phones at school and they are immediately removed if seen.

@WhereAreMyAirpods I was actually shocked about the exclusions from school and Brianna’s phone addiction. It’s all very well saying it’s the fault of the school when this child was bought the phone by her parents and didn’t seem to get help to improve what was going on! She’s blamed the school and just the school. They didn’t know other dc was going to be a murderer.

Plus dc will use the phones out of school! School use is a major red herring. Parents will still supply the phones so what happens at 3.30 pm?

No schools should require dc to have a smart phone to access anything! On MN all the time we have people posting about the cost of school uniform! How do they afford a smart phone? Addicted dc are a problem and that’s what needs tackling.

It’s not the same at all. We age rated analogue TV by time and classified films. We would never sell or lend an obviously inappropriate book to a child.

I was told on a safeguarding course that the average age a child first sees adult content on WhatsApp is 11. I still find that hard to believe but it was an expert who told us.

I'm glad I left teaching before this became an issue. It was just starting to. You even had parents ringing their child at school during lessons. If the parents are never off their phone, then it doesn't really set the example of disciplined phone use.

I find it very upsetting to see the parents of tiny babies and small children walking along in public places with their face in their phone. The children get no attention at all. it is almost psychological abandonment.

I completely agree with this but could not find a way to put it as well as you have.

I keep hearing Brianna referred to as the daughter, she ect on the news and as much as i feel for the family i don't think it's doing any good perpetuating this weird illusion/delusion.

It's not reality. He was a boy. Living in a world of layers of dark internet unreality. Seeing this being supported on the likes of BBC Breakfast referring to him as a daughter makes me feel a bit ill.

Obviously at some point and for her own reasons his mother had decided to go with it. And that was and is her choice. Given the nature of what happened to him it feels wrong for the rest of the world to feel obligated to go along with it. It's feeding into the whole mess that it began with.

@Shortshriftandlethal - sorry didn’t answer why we gave them phones. Mainly for convenience- it’s quite useful for her to see the weather on her way home from school, see train times, message us when she’s home and message her friends. Her timetable and homework is set online and she could access them from a desktop but it is handy on an app for a quick glance.

We are confident in our restrictions but under no illusions that we can set and forget restrictions.

Already implemented in my DCs school from last year. Kids whinged a bit to begin with, now it’s just the norm.