Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Views on nannies

62 replies

AliasGrace47 · 03/09/2025 18:20

I've noticed quite a lot of this kind of discourse being reiterated recently on SM, Substack and other places. Sometimes from anti-feminist men and women, sometimes from women (often but not always some flavour of right-wing) who support some aspects of feminism but not others (think Mary Harrington 'care feminism' types, who do say a lot of valuable things imo, tho I also disagree personally w quite a lot).

Anyway, the point they all make in different ways is essentially: 'Rich, selfish girlbosses (a lot of this talk is US, which explains somewhat) exploit the labour of poor women as nannies in order to achieve their career dreams. One wage can no longer support a family, so these poor nannies have to care for other people's children rather than be with their own.'

Now, to be clear, that is NOT my view of women who employ nannies. I have worked as a childminder briefly myself in sixth form holidays, and I know several friends who have done similar, or longer-term au pair work in France or similar. All of us were fine, we didn't do it out of financial necessity, but bc we like children and thought it would be useful to gain experience generally and of childcare specifically (most of us want kids ourselves one day).

But obvs most nannies are in a different situation. And I know very well that some are exploited, or even if treated ok are from families that can't survive on one wage, so have to work as nannies when they'd rather be with their own children. And obvs it has hazards: potentially very demanding esp if living with the family, risk of low pay, potential sexual harassment, the list goes on. The risk would intensify if they are from a poor country and working abroad.

But the kind of black-and-white discourse I outlined above is obvs flawed. For one thing, as I outlined, some nannies/au pairs etc are comfortably-off girls doing it for extra cash - hard to argue they are being exploited (I know this is not most, I'm just arguing the picture is more complex)

Second, are rich girlbosses or rich families, period, necessarily exploiting poor women as nannies always? Norland Nannies, for one, which is obvs popular w the wealthy, apparently recruits mainly from middle class young women.

https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2020/oct/23/modern-mary-poppins-inside-the-elites-nanny-college-photo-essay

Obvs wealthy families, and families generally, will employ from a variety of sources,,but this shows again that the picture is a bit more complex.

If a young woman chooses to be a nanny because she wants to, (as presumably a lot of Norland etc types do), and has other options, then that's very different from a poor woman who would much rather be with her own children but takes a nanny job bc of the one-wage system no longer working (which I agree is bad) or bc she's a single parent.

I do feel the 'care feminists' argument does take away from women's agency somewhat. They talk about how wonderful caring for children is (which I agree!) but then talk as if caring for children who aren't your own is so terrible that women would only do it bc of poverty.

However, I agree the situation of poor women who feel compelled to work as nannies and others is a crucial feminist issue, which needs much more attention.

I just feel that care feminists' (as well as the MRA types who also argue this) attitude is much too Manichaen, which this issue doesn't warrant (unlike stuff like sex work and surrogacy).

Disclaimer : This is partly me sorting out my thoughts...I want to research this issue more,so apologies for any errors I have made...

Also to be clear, I don't think it's wrong to employ a nanny. I think it's better for both parents to be around the child as much as possible, esp in preschool years, but I know that life often doesn't allow for that. My mother was a single parent, and the only reason she didn't need a nanny was bc we lived w my grandmother who was happy to help, obvs this isn't possible for a lot of people for many reasons

Modern Mary Poppins: inside the elite's nanny college – photo essay

Italian photographer Guia Besana investigated world oldest childcare training institution, Norland College, still favoured by the international elite

https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2020/oct/23/modern-mary-poppins-inside-the-elites-nanny-college-photo-essay

OP posts:
MorrisZapp · 03/09/2025 18:26

I mean it's a bit weird. Obvs, Obvs, outlined, outlined, girlboss, girlboss, Manichaen.

Is this a report you're writing or something?

spannasaurus · 03/09/2025 18:27

What's the difference between a woman who works as a nanny because her family can't afford to live on one wage and a woman who works in any other job for the same reason?

Sorejaws · 03/09/2025 18:29

So many words
So very many unnecessary words

slightlyunimpressed · 03/09/2025 18:35

I don’t think this applies significantly to the UK. Far fewer nannies are low paid immigrant workers than in the US and it is far more common to have arrangements where a nanny brings her own child with her or nanny shares. Not least because a nanny can earn £30k plus - more in London. Why should being a nanny be different from using any other form of childcare?

Fitzcarraldo353 · 03/09/2025 18:38

spannasaurus · 03/09/2025 18:27

What's the difference between a woman who works as a nanny because her family can't afford to live on one wage and a woman who works in any other job for the same reason?

Presumably it's the difference between women who work/have jobs and women who are "girlbosses" 🤮🤮🤮

fashionqueen0123 · 03/09/2025 18:38

In my experience Nannies with own kids work part time and bring their child eliminating their child care costs so they’re better off. They may go to a pre-school or nursery part time.
Or they are younger or older with no kids and are earning a really good wage.

Nellodee · 03/09/2025 18:40

Very few people can afford to sustain a family on one wage today. I was “forced to educate other people’s children” rather than raise my own. My husband was “forced to trade groceries for cash” rather than raise his own children. You can take issue with capitalism, but making it only about “girl bosses” is pure misogyny.

FLOWER19833 · 03/09/2025 18:42

Most women working as nannies get more than minimum wage so they are not really exploited,its a choice just like working in a supermarket

Fitzcarraldo353 · 03/09/2025 18:42

Also to be clear, I don't think it's wrong to employ a nanny. I think it's better for both parents to be around the child as much as possible, esp in preschool years, but I know that life often doesn't allow for that. My mother was a single parent, and the only reason she didn't need a nanny was bc we lived w my grandmother who was happy to help, obvs this isn't possible for a lot of people for many reasons

I reject the entire premise that childcare is acceptable because families NEED two parents to work, or single parents HAVE to work as opposed to it being perfectly fine to use childcare because women just WANT to go work and have careers.

AliasGrace47 · 03/09/2025 18:42

slightlyunimpressed · 03/09/2025 18:35

I don’t think this applies significantly to the UK. Far fewer nannies are low paid immigrant workers than in the US and it is far more common to have arrangements where a nanny brings her own child with her or nanny shares. Not least because a nanny can earn £30k plus - more in London. Why should being a nanny be different from using any other form of childcare?

Thank you, I thought this might be the case. Sounds like scaremongering somewhat from antifeminists and 'care feminists'.

I wonder also if they're thinking of US where the situation may be different. Esp as ao much discussion seems to centre the US now. I know certainly that exploitation of poor women as domestics incl nannies is a big problem in India and Georgia, and almost certainly other places.

Exploitation of women is ofc something for feminism to tackle wherever it is. But it sounds like this may then be less of an issue here, at least in London.

OP posts:
AliasGrace47 · 03/09/2025 18:45

Nellodee · 03/09/2025 18:40

Very few people can afford to sustain a family on one wage today. I was “forced to educate other people’s children” rather than raise my own. My husband was “forced to trade groceries for cash” rather than raise his own children. You can take issue with capitalism, but making it only about “girl bosses” is pure misogyny.

Exactly! To be clear, the 'girlboss' thing was quoting antifeminists and care feminists. It is NOT my own view.

In fact those types would probs call me a girlboss 😂as my ambition to be a criminal lawyer is v important to me.

OP posts:
OnTheRoof · 03/09/2025 18:46

One of the major problems with that analysis is that it doesn't mention these children have fathers. If one takes the view that having a nanny is exploiting poorer women, it's as logical to only say men are doing it as it is to only say women are.

AliasGrace47 · 03/09/2025 18:48

OnTheRoof · 03/09/2025 18:46

One of the major problems with that analysis is that it doesn't mention these children have fathers. If one takes the view that having a nanny is exploiting poorer women, it's as logical to only say men are doing it as it is to only say women are.

Exactly, also acts as if all nannies are female. Ofc most are, but 'mannies' certainly do exist. One of my schoolfriends had one, she was v fond of him, and AFAIK he genuinely enjoyed his job.

OP posts:
Sorejaws · 03/09/2025 18:52

AliasGrace47 · 03/09/2025 18:45

Exactly! To be clear, the 'girlboss' thing was quoting antifeminists and care feminists. It is NOT my own view.

In fact those types would probs call me a girlboss 😂as my ambition to be a criminal lawyer is v important to me.

Are you studying law?

NowYouSee · 03/09/2025 18:53

Odd how I am a “girl boss” but my husband is never a “boy boss”. And also odd how judgments are drawn on whether I should be working Ft in a busy and senior role as opposed to looking after kids but not my husband.

AliasGrace47 · 03/09/2025 18:53

Sorejaws · 03/09/2025 18:52

Are you studying law?

No, history, I'm going to take a conversion course

OP posts:
Sorejaws · 03/09/2025 18:55

And you’re… 18? 19?

BackToLurk · 03/09/2025 18:57

There always seems far more angst around paying a third party to do ‘women’s work’, eg cleaning, looking after children, than there is around ‘contracting out’ ‘men’s work’ eg decorating, mowing the lawn.

mamagogo1 · 03/09/2025 19:04

Most proper Nannie’s in the U.K. I’ve met are professional and paid well, they rarely live in and if they do they have their own apartment within the property.

the same cannot be said for the situation in other countries where they hire from low income countries and sometimes there’s dubious recruitment practices, holding of passports etc.

AliasGrace47 · 03/09/2025 19:05

NowYouSee · 03/09/2025 18:53

Odd how I am a “girl boss” but my husband is never a “boy boss”. And also odd how judgments are drawn on whether I should be working Ft in a busy and senior role as opposed to looking after kids but not my husband.

Exactly, 'boyboss' never took off. Odd, that...🤔

The whole 'girlboss' thing started bc of some book a US woman wrote in 2011. Silly infantilising title to begin with, even if meant ironically (& now carried on with the 'girl math', 'girl dinner' stuff on TikTok 🤦‍♀️) A lot of people now of all viewpoints now blame it for starting off a wave of women who thought work was all there was to life, and exploited others, but imo that's arguably part of a larger trend for both genders within the US millennial hustle culture phase in general. And I don't think it's that applicable to the UK.

OP posts:
mamagogo1 · 03/09/2025 19:05

The young ex norland nanny I knew is very well paid, working with a team of Nannie’s, has own driver, cook etc, needless to say she’s not working in the uk now!

AliasGrace47 · 03/09/2025 19:06

Sorejaws · 03/09/2025 18:55

And you’re… 18? 19?

  1. What's the interrogation for? 🤣
OP posts:
HeinzTomato · 03/09/2025 19:15

I don't really recognise the image you're painting here at all, OP. Maybe in the US it's more normal to employ women without many options (eg without a work permit) as a nanny at an exploitative wage, and I'm sure we are all against that. Nannying in the UK is generally a professional job with decent pay- my old nanny was on the equivalent of £50k. It's not really equivalent to your old summer job.

a poor woman who would much rather be with her own children but takes a nanny job bc of the one-wage system no longer working

How is this different from anyone doing a job because they have bills to pay?

OnTheRoof · 03/09/2025 19:15

BackToLurk · 03/09/2025 18:57

There always seems far more angst around paying a third party to do ‘women’s work’, eg cleaning, looking after children, than there is around ‘contracting out’ ‘men’s work’ eg decorating, mowing the lawn.

Funny that!

Sorejaws · 03/09/2025 19:20

AliasGrace47 · 03/09/2025 19:06

  1. What's the interrogation for? 🤣

😆

“interrogation”

maybe you should reconsider a career in criminal law if you think two questions is an interrogation.

19…. you spend a lot of time on mumsnet… each to their own but surely there’s more exciting things to be doing at 19?!

Swipe left for the next trending thread