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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Jesse Singal on the furore over Systematic Reviews of Gender Medicine

70 replies

Mermoose · 29/08/2025 07:39

Let me know if there's already a thread on this, I can't see one. Jesse Singal has a very good two part Substack on the fiasco at McMaster.

SEGM funded five systematic reviews of different aspects of gender affirmative treatments. The research team included Gordon Guyatt, the man who in 1991 coined the term "evidence based medicine". The SRs found (unsurprisingly) that the evidence was very poor.

The research team and the university were both targeted by trans activists. SEGM have been branded a hate group, and Guyatt and colleagues have been denounced for working with "a hate group".

The researchers (not all, but this includes Guyatt) have variously scuppered the publication of some of the reviews; added notices on how the SRs should affect policy (eg that they should not be used to support bans on puberty blockers) and have given apology money to a trans charity that disseminates false information on these treatments.

https://jessesingal.substack.com/p/the-disaster-at-mcmaster-part-1

https://jessesingal.substack.com/p/the-disaster-at-mcmaster-part-2-my

The Disaster At McMaster, Part 1

Scholars are being “traumatized,” a long-running collaboration is being torched. . . what is going on?

https://jessesingal.substack.com/p/the-disaster-at-mcmaster-part-1

OP posts:
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NotBadConsidering · 09/09/2025 08:33

TheKeatingFive · 09/09/2025 07:17

I'm really shocked at these bunch of clowns.

They were all asleep at the wheel, while admonishing the rest of us for paying attention.

This exchange should be seen far and wide.

They were all asleep at the wheel, while admonishing the rest of us for paying attention.

Superbly put. The way he reacts to having the problem pointed out to him is telling. He thinks it’s unfair to focus on that “one small part”. It’s the entire problem Gordon you muppet!

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 09/09/2025 08:39

NotBadConsidering · 09/09/2025 08:33

They were all asleep at the wheel, while admonishing the rest of us for paying attention.

Superbly put. The way he reacts to having the problem pointed out to him is telling. He thinks it’s unfair to focus on that “one small part”. It’s the entire problem Gordon you muppet!

Edited

I take it from this that my blood pressure is not going to benefit from watching the video…

NotBadConsidering · 09/09/2025 09:08

I haven’t watched the whole video, just the clip. I’d recommend that as a starter because if it puts your blood pressure up it’s only short!

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 09/09/2025 09:10

NotBadConsidering · 09/09/2025 09:08

I haven’t watched the whole video, just the clip. I’d recommend that as a starter because if it puts your blood pressure up it’s only short!

🤣

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 09/09/2025 09:40

NotBadConsidering · 09/09/2025 09:08

I haven’t watched the whole video, just the clip. I’d recommend that as a starter because if it puts your blood pressure up it’s only short!

Nah, the clip was enough. Weaselly man trying to weasel out of what he said. “Don’t pillory me for a few words”. A few words!! Bah.

Bluebootsgreenboots · 09/09/2025 09:53

Very much 'Hush now Stella and Mia, this is all your fault for bringing it to my attention.'
Of course he's entitled to make mistakes and have an occasional dopey moment. We can all forgive that. But own it, correct it, see what you can do to rectify any unintended consequences and treat the people who brought it to light with the grace and respect they deserve.

TempestTost · 09/09/2025 10:44

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 01/09/2025 08:16

There’s a similar article from an indigenous Australian researcher from about the same time period, saying much the same thing - don’t appropriate indigenous terms and concepts (which you have misinterpreted or simplified beyond recognition) to explain or justify modern concepts. I’ll see if I can find it.

He's not wrong, but at least in Canada, I don't really see this as appropriation. The idea was pushed by certain indiginous activists who thought it would be politically useful.

There is a certain class of ethnically European Canadians who are incapable of critical thinking on any statement that comes from any supposedly marginalised working group. It comes, as a pp said, from some kind of "white guilt" which as far as I can see they are taught at school.

TempestTost · 09/09/2025 10:49

DrBlackbird · 03/09/2025 23:25

Mainly imo because the media class has been massively successful at making sure the people who might be concerned here absolutely nothing to make them pay attention.

A few feminist friends seem completely unaware of Canada’s reputation as transada so I suspect that the media just does not report any ‘anti trans’ stories. Even friends who live in Vancouver knew nothing about the VRRC being sued / having its municipal funding withdrawn after a campaign by a TW who wasn’t accepted to be a rape counsellor. Men hate being told no.

Yup. None of them would read the National Post which is literally the only place they would see something like that.

Somehow the progressive left have been completely successful at branding it crazy right-wing and also unreliable bad journalism. It's certainly not perfect in the latter sense but it doesn't spin things any more than the CBC does.

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 09/09/2025 12:33

The responses on X to the clip of Stella and Mia’s interview are blowing up.

WarriorN · 09/09/2025 20:21

Margaret McCartney, contributing dr on bbc inside health and member of for women Scotland:

Jesse Singal on the furore over Systematic Reviews of Gender Medicine
WarriorN · 09/09/2025 20:31

I hadn’t read the statement.

I expected it to be pages long.

it was this:

Systematic reviews related to gender-affirming care

Posted on August 14, 2025

Members and allies of 2SLGBTQIA+ communities have raised concerns about recent systematic reviews related to gender-affirming care. These concerns center on the funding source, and specifically on the potential for the research to be misused to harm trans youth and to deny gender-affirming care.

Prompted by these concerns, the authors of the systematic reviews have shared the following:
In contrast to the way findings and presentation of our systematic reviews have been misrepresented and misinterpreted, they in fact show that, like the majority of what we do as physicians, the outcomes of specific aspects of care for transgender patients remain uncertain. The appropriate response to such uncertainty is shared decision-making that fully respects the autonomy of the individuals involved. Therefore, we have prepared the following letter related to our SEGM-sponsored systematic reviews:

Authors of scientific articles have a responsibility to attend to how their contributions will be used and to modify their presentation in the articles, or other communications, accordingly. We, five authors of recent systematic reviews related to gender-affirming care, are concerned that the conclusions of our work–that only low certainty evidence exists (as determined by the GRADE [Grading of Recommendations Assessment, Development, and Evaluation] approach) regarding the benefits of the gender-affirming care interventions addressed in our systematic reviews–will be misused. Specifically, we are concerned that the assessments of the certainty of evidence using established and standard methodology are interpreted as evidence supporting denial of care to trans, nonbinary, and gender-diverse (TGD) individuals, including youth. We are concerned our findings will be used to justify denying care such as puberty blockers and hormone replacement therapy to TGD individuals. Indeed, our prior work has been used in exactly this highly problematic way.

We therefore feel compelled to make explicit our view regarding how our findings should and should not be used. Following fundamental principles of humane medical practice, clinicians have an obligation to care for those in need, often in the context of shared decision making. It is unconscionable to forbid clinicians from delivering gender-affirming care.

Moreover, following the principles of evidence-based decision-making, clinicians should always have a high respect for the autonomy of patients and their advocates. The high respect for autonomy becomes particularly important when the certainty of the evidence is low or very low. In such circumstances, clinicians should work with patients to ensure that care reflects the experience, goals, and priorities of those needing care – that is, their values and preferences.

It is profoundly misguided to cast health care based on low-certainty evidence as bad care or as care driven by ideology, and low-certainty evidence as bad science. Many of the interventions we offer are based on low certainty evidence, and enlightened individuals often legitimately and wisely choose such interventions. Thus, forbidding delivery of gender-affirming care and limiting medical management options on the basis of low certainty evidence is a clear violation of the principles of evidence-based shared decision-making and is unconscionable. The appropriate use of our work is in ensuring patients receive needed care and in helping TGD patients and their clinicians in decision making.

We write this in the hope that all those who use our work to inform the care of TGD patients receiving gender-affirming care, and those using our work in consideration of policy decisions, prioritize the delivery of compassionate and conscientious care that fully respects the autonomy of the TGD patient.

We acknowledge concerns that have been raised.1 Our research agreement with SEGM ended in 2024. When the agreement started in 2021, the organization appeared to us as non-trans, cis-gender researchers to be legitimately evidence-based.

We will no longer accept funding from SEGM. As recommended by community advocates, we have also personally made a donation to Egale Canada’s legal and justice work, noting their litigation efforts aimed at preventing the denial of medically necessary care for gender-diverse youth.

Gordon Guyatt, MD, MSc

Romina Brignardello-Petersen, DDS, MSc, PhD

Sara Ibrahim, BHSc, PhD student

Yetiani Roldán-Benitez, MD, MSc

Rachel Couban, MA, MISt

WarriorN · 09/09/2025 20:32

What a slippery snake! Chasing snake oil.

DisappearingGirl · 09/09/2025 22:30

I mean, it's a very unusual statement to add to a factual systematic review.

It's true that absence of evidence doesn't necessarily mean absence of benefit. But where you've got little or no evidence of benefit, combined with some pretty definite evidence of harms, you'd generally have to have a pretty good reason to use or recommend that treatment.

WarriorN · 10/09/2025 05:21

https://genspect.substack.com/p/unconscionable-cowardice

im not sure why she’s had enforced silence?

Jesse Singal on the furore over Systematic Reviews of Gender Medicine
Jesse Singal on the furore over Systematic Reviews of Gender Medicine
WarriorN · 10/09/2025 05:22

To be clear: this was no minor slip. The importance of the creator of evidence-based medicine endorsing paediatric gender medicine cannot be overstated. His name added in support of this experiment will be cited by activists to justify the continuation of unevidenced treatments; it will mislead parents into signing consent forms for irreversible interventions; it will be invoked in court to block legislation designed to protect children from a medical world that has lost its way.

To the average person, if one of the most decorated and distinguished doctors of our time says this protocol is medically necessary, then it must be so.

WarriorN · 10/09/2025 05:27

DisappearingGirl · 09/09/2025 22:30

I mean, it's a very unusual statement to add to a factual systematic review.

It's true that absence of evidence doesn't necessarily mean absence of benefit. But where you've got little or no evidence of benefit, combined with some pretty definite evidence of harms, you'd generally have to have a pretty good reason to use or recommend that treatment.

it’s particularly in the context of children.

And the issue is that they’re only looking at the evidence of treatment. They’re not considering socio factors driving the beliefs, which will also add to placebo effects.

Taytoface · 10/09/2025 05:42

This is so depressing. He is the father of evidence based medicine. Where there is not great data, this is the only tool we have to determine whether medical treatments actually work or not. He chose to trash his own reputation rather than face down the activists. A kind of academic hari kiri. It is so chilling.

Mermoose · 10/09/2025 06:52

I'm looking forward to Margaret McCartney's response.

I found it very difficult to listen to the entire interview Guyatt did with Stella and Mia. His defensiveness meant no question or comment was viewed with any generosity or curiosity, everything was met with cageyness verging on hostility. To me, it demonstrated how someone with his background is getting this so wrong - he's not letting himself think.

He himself has said that evidence on its own doesn't make policy; to get to policy you need values. His problem is that other people have different values to him, and he seems to think that only if you have the same values as him should you be able to refer to the evidence he has analysed.

I think it would have been reasonable for Guyatt to publish the systematic reviews, and if he wished, publish articles setting out his reasons for believing that bans aren't a good way of regulating this area of medicine. I think the reason this didn't seem sufficient to him is the same reason he is so defensive and incurious when talking to Stella and Mia - he's in an us-and-them frame of mind, a product of the deep political polarisation of our time. He sees political opponents not as people much like himself, who can be reasoned with and if they differ from him will have fathomable reasons for doing so. They're simply enemies who must be in some way defeated.

OP posts:
Dopeydoraz · 10/09/2025 08:58

“If you can find it in my statement, I’ll have to jump off a bridge.”
This is very disappointing

Dopeydoraz · 10/09/2025 08:59

Mermoose · 10/09/2025 06:52

I'm looking forward to Margaret McCartney's response.

I found it very difficult to listen to the entire interview Guyatt did with Stella and Mia. His defensiveness meant no question or comment was viewed with any generosity or curiosity, everything was met with cageyness verging on hostility. To me, it demonstrated how someone with his background is getting this so wrong - he's not letting himself think.

He himself has said that evidence on its own doesn't make policy; to get to policy you need values. His problem is that other people have different values to him, and he seems to think that only if you have the same values as him should you be able to refer to the evidence he has analysed.

I think it would have been reasonable for Guyatt to publish the systematic reviews, and if he wished, publish articles setting out his reasons for believing that bans aren't a good way of regulating this area of medicine. I think the reason this didn't seem sufficient to him is the same reason he is so defensive and incurious when talking to Stella and Mia - he's in an us-and-them frame of mind, a product of the deep political polarisation of our time. He sees political opponents not as people much like himself, who can be reasoned with and if they differ from him will have fathomable reasons for doing so. They're simply enemies who must be in some way defeated.

I totally agree with everything this post says and find it so depressing

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