Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Edinburgh International Book Festival has not invited authors of gender critical books

83 replies

IwantToRetire · 03/08/2025 19:05

Scotland’s biggest book festival has provoked fury after claiming the authors of best selling gender critical books have not been invited to take part because the issue is too divisive.

Edinburgh International Book Festival Chief Executive Jenny Niven told a complainer: 'We do not want to be in a position that we are creating events for spectacle or sport, or raising specific people’s identity as a subject of debate.'

The event, part funded by public cash, features 700 authors from 35 different countries across the world but has been criticised for ignoring gender critical voices in the books and speakers it is promoting.

Full article https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14965579/Book-festival-boss-criticised-lack-invite-authors-gender-critical-books.html

See also https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14965583/JENNY-LINDSAY-touch-literary-world-long-ludicrously-one-sided-gender-debate.html

Authors of gender critical books claim festival has 'cancelled' them

The boss of Scotland's biggest book festival has provoked fury after claiming the authors of best selling gender critical books have not been invited to take part because the issue is too divisive.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14965579/Book-festival-boss-criticised-lack-invite-authors-gender-critical-books.html

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
ThatBlackCat · 28/08/2025 08:00

So many typos in that last post, sorry. It's too late to edit.

SinnerBoy · 28/08/2025 08:05

DistantBlue · 25/08/2025 11:47

I actually raised a number of points as to why they were maybe not included in the bill and, as ever, you're not able to answer to any of them

Yet you apparently missed the words of the organiser, who set out why she chose to discriminate illegally against GC women.

As for your links, are you aware that they are all highly partisan propaganda outfits, which regard getting a double take as genocide?

ThatBlackCat · 28/08/2025 08:10

Imagine having the hide, the gall, the front to talk about Palestine when you are pushing a first world patriarchal privileged luxury metaphysical belief that promotes male oppression of womens rights. Check the privilege! Do you think anyone in Palestine gives a stuff what pronoun they are called right now?

Further, does anyone think a male would identify as a woman under the Talibanic Afghanistan? Would these 'transwomen' on a visit to Afghanistan, identify as a woman there? Would they fuck! We all know they would run with their Male Privilege. Sadly, us women cannot identify out of our oppression. That's the difference.

LemonLymanDotCom · 28/08/2025 08:38

DistantBlue · 25/08/2025 11:47

I actually raised a number of points as to why they were maybe not included in the bill and, as ever, you're not able to answer to any of them because, unlike your arguments, there are logical reasons as to why, not just GC authors but authors in general are not on the bill. I repeat, authors are not necessarily invited to book festivals, the authors themselves or their agents have to pitch an event to the programming team. And as to the first quote - that's not what is being said. It's talks about not wanting to book something purely based on it's clickbait potential that doesn't forward the discussion. If the books had more substance beyond complaining about being cancelled and fuelling hateful rhetoric, then they might have been in with a chance. Events covering other subjects that are considered divisive including the continuing situation in Palestine and Colonialism in Scotland were all present on the book festival bill. So no, it's not just that GC writers are divisive, it's that these books are not saying anything new or bring anything interesting to the table beyond 'woe is me that no one cares about what I have to say'.

Well said. Looks like another bookseller / publishing person on this thread who knows what they're talking about. Authors/ publishers/ agents pitch events for festivals. Nobody has been cancelled if they weren’t programmed in the first place.

Also to point out, The Women Who Wouldn’t Wheesht is an edited collection. Book festivals very rarely host events for collections, which makes sense cos there’s no ‘single author’ but volume editors instead.

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 28/08/2025 09:12

There are all sorts of reasons why a book might not have been included. But those are not the reasons that the organisers themselves stated.

The justifications that @DistantBlue and @LemonLymanDotCom gave are feeble. Book festival organisers are supposed to be in touch with the local and contemporary literary scene and at a high-profile festival like Edinburgh they help to shape that scene. The organisers are perfectly capable of responding to the format if they choose to. And they should be capable of seeking out relevant authors and inviting proposals for a relevant event. They shouldn't just passively respond to whatever the commercial agents send to them.

DistantBlue · 28/08/2025 09:53

woollyhatter · 28/08/2025 06:12

Would you mind clarifying what part of my stance you disagree with? It would be really helpful to make sure I understand accurately where you are coming from.

I think your position is based on relativistic premise that we all bring our own subjectivities and experience to the debate of varying weight and emphasis, but I maybe wrong. Is there another reason or reasons that you have come to the conclusion that valid voices are currently being drowned out?

I am also interested in how the submission process for the book festival works. Are writers individually invited to submitted? What takes precedence? The committee selected theme or a review of what seem to be the pressing issues of the book reading public? I, again, don’t want to make assumptions on that but I do think there was the theme of repair and you and I are of the same mind, I think, that the debate needs to move but to what purpose and in what form is still up for grabs.

As much as it appears to be a bit of a bear pit here, the long form nature of the message board is more reflective of the type of enlightening discussions that can happen at a book festival where issues are not reduced to 240 characters and citations and other evidence is recorded and revisited. Hence the habit of the Mnetters of “keeping receipts”.

I will look at your links to examine how they bring an alternative position to mine and get back to you on them. Meanwhile, others who are interested in a more in depth discussion may wish to do the same. I usually find that some of the links presented will have been brought up before and thought about quite extensively. Hopefully others who have contributed in the past can reference back and bring out summaries.

I do understand both sides of the discussions and the importance around the implications of changes to the law in terms of women’s safety and the years it’s taken to get here. And that that we have to do right but the most vulnerable within that. So can absolutely understand why the idea that someone, although presenting as a woman but has male genitalia going into safe spaces, is concerning for a lot of people. Particular when the trauma caused by violence has been perpetrated by someone with a penis. But in my mind I see safe spaces as protection from predatory men. Which of course isn’t all men and it isn’t, by a long shot, all trans women. I think predatory men will abuse any law, structure and loop hole in place to attack women and I don’t believe other vulnerable people within our society should be restricted from safe space because of that. I see such similarities between the dangers that face both women and trans women and the protections both groups need from predatory males. And because I take the stance that trans women are not men I don’t think the answer is keeping them out of single sex spaces or excluding them from women only events. Not a perfect solution I know. And not a perfect answer by a long shot. And not most likely a convincing one for most on this thread. But I have spent a lot of time with this subject and looking into it, since about 2017 ish when it first started to come on my radar. And this is the ‘side’, for want of a better word, that I have come down on. I am also guilty, like most, for getting frustrated with opposing views when things become heated or when accused of not doing the research.

But as you say, I came across this thread because of the commentary surrounding the book festival and it was this I was originally commenting on. Full disclosure, I don’t work for the book festival but do work across the creative sector, including literature, so do have some knowledge of how the process works. It is my understanding that authors aren’t invited to book festivals but events are pitched by their agents/publishers to EIBF/members of the programming team and discussions are had from there on. Hosts of events ie the people leading the discussions with the authors will be invited in some cases but in other cases the authors choose their own. Obviously not all events are chosen and for what reasons I can’t comment on but there is a process to go through beyond just being invited. Same with film festivals. There will be an element of programming that comes from connections made by the directors, producers of the festivals when they visit other international festivals and events and tie-ins with them might include invited guests as part of a focus on a particular country or theme. With it being an international book festival it will have 1000s of pitches and planning will take place over months. So my initial comment was really to flag that there other things at play. And a huge amount of great authors and books released - bestseller or otherwise - that will be in consideration and also not chosen.

Also, I have known of Jenny Lindsay’s writing for many years - way before the GC debate - and was never that impressed by it, if I’m to be honest. And my recollection is that she wasn’t really in that much demand as a writer, up until recently. Admittedly, I’ve not read Hounded but mostly because, like a lot of people, I have a stack of books next to my bed I’d rather read. So this, coupled with the bit of knowledge I have of the programming process, led me to respond that ‘maybe the books are just not that good’ and ‘maybe they didn’t go through the correct channels’

Anyway, I am going to take a step away from this thread now. This is the most of spent on the internet for a long time as it’s not an environment I enjoy so much. But thank you again for your time on this

DistantBlue · 28/08/2025 09:56

ThatBlackCat · 28/08/2025 07:50

Yet you've been brainwashed to think males re-badged as 'trans' somehow makes the male sex now oppressed. The FACT is, trans is the most CELEBRATED, the most POWERFUL, the most PROTECTED and the most PRIVILEGED group there is. They are UNTOUCHABLE. They are a sacred caste. In less than one generation, they have managed to change the definition of women, erase female spaces, infiltrate government, institutions and organisations. NO OTHER MINORITY GROUP has had that power. Not even gay men, who took literally DECADES AND DECADES to get any rights. Trans are the most powerful sacred caste. Most of your links (including the williams 'institute' which admitted themselves the study wasn't valid) rely on 'self reporting'. A woman misgendering (correct-sexing) a male is called "literal violence". Women saying no to males in female spaces is called an act of hate. A few of those studies have males saying they received strange looks - again, called 'hate'. None of these have any actual violence. Just saying NO to males.

However, lets look at who you identify with; lets look at your mob. Women have been beaten up by aggressive male trans activists at rallies. A 72 year old woman in Auckland, NZ had her eye socket fractured male a male TRA. Women have had things thrown at them, not just soup. Sarah-Jane Baker (transwoman) said terfs should be punched. Not long after, a woman was beaten very badly in Scotland, based off that rhetoric. Women talking about their rape at rallies are drowned by men counter protesters with megaphones and drums. They've marched and urinated on feminist statues.

Tell me, when have GC women ever committed ANY, ANY of that? EVER? The images are violent rape threats and death threats from YOUR side. Tell me now how 'vulnerable' these VIOLENT MALES are, and how us women and girls are the danger. This is your side, I would be MORTIFIED is I allied with these (and only 4 out of a folder of 1600-odd threats of rape and violence from transwomen and trans activists):

I said the last of what I had to say in my last comment in which I shared some of my sources. But thank you for time in responding.

woollyhatter · 28/08/2025 10:39

DistantBlue · 28/08/2025 09:53

I do understand both sides of the discussions and the importance around the implications of changes to the law in terms of women’s safety and the years it’s taken to get here. And that that we have to do right but the most vulnerable within that. So can absolutely understand why the idea that someone, although presenting as a woman but has male genitalia going into safe spaces, is concerning for a lot of people. Particular when the trauma caused by violence has been perpetrated by someone with a penis. But in my mind I see safe spaces as protection from predatory men. Which of course isn’t all men and it isn’t, by a long shot, all trans women. I think predatory men will abuse any law, structure and loop hole in place to attack women and I don’t believe other vulnerable people within our society should be restricted from safe space because of that. I see such similarities between the dangers that face both women and trans women and the protections both groups need from predatory males. And because I take the stance that trans women are not men I don’t think the answer is keeping them out of single sex spaces or excluding them from women only events. Not a perfect solution I know. And not a perfect answer by a long shot. And not most likely a convincing one for most on this thread. But I have spent a lot of time with this subject and looking into it, since about 2017 ish when it first started to come on my radar. And this is the ‘side’, for want of a better word, that I have come down on. I am also guilty, like most, for getting frustrated with opposing views when things become heated or when accused of not doing the research.

But as you say, I came across this thread because of the commentary surrounding the book festival and it was this I was originally commenting on. Full disclosure, I don’t work for the book festival but do work across the creative sector, including literature, so do have some knowledge of how the process works. It is my understanding that authors aren’t invited to book festivals but events are pitched by their agents/publishers to EIBF/members of the programming team and discussions are had from there on. Hosts of events ie the people leading the discussions with the authors will be invited in some cases but in other cases the authors choose their own. Obviously not all events are chosen and for what reasons I can’t comment on but there is a process to go through beyond just being invited. Same with film festivals. There will be an element of programming that comes from connections made by the directors, producers of the festivals when they visit other international festivals and events and tie-ins with them might include invited guests as part of a focus on a particular country or theme. With it being an international book festival it will have 1000s of pitches and planning will take place over months. So my initial comment was really to flag that there other things at play. And a huge amount of great authors and books released - bestseller or otherwise - that will be in consideration and also not chosen.

Also, I have known of Jenny Lindsay’s writing for many years - way before the GC debate - and was never that impressed by it, if I’m to be honest. And my recollection is that she wasn’t really in that much demand as a writer, up until recently. Admittedly, I’ve not read Hounded but mostly because, like a lot of people, I have a stack of books next to my bed I’d rather read. So this, coupled with the bit of knowledge I have of the programming process, led me to respond that ‘maybe the books are just not that good’ and ‘maybe they didn’t go through the correct channels’

Anyway, I am going to take a step away from this thread now. This is the most of spent on the internet for a long time as it’s not an environment I enjoy so much. But thank you again for your time on this

Thank for a bit of insight into how you came to formulate your views and also your input on book festival decision making process. I did want to know how such programming was decided and influenced.

I think I was a bit disappointed with the programme since it did highlight the theme of repair so I had hoped that we might have had a more fulsome discussion at the festival and that the programmers were going to “go there” but sadly not yet or at least not explicitly.

Also there was a panel on queer rights and realities I did attend and while informative in some ways, it did also underline how people are still speaking to their own echo chambers which sadly means that we can’t evolve the discussion further until people are ready to set aside some of the stronger emotions evoked (not that strong emotion is not justified in many cases).

I had hoped that a leading book festival which is where people tend to exercise intellect and the power of careful reflection was the forum to recalibrate the discussion. It is the place where thought and feeling meet but sadly not to be this year.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page