Janice Turner - Class snobbery is at the heart of NHS gender war

80 replies

DisappearingGirl · 03/08/2025 07:50

Janice Turner article - headline looks interesting but I don't have a share token sorry!

https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/class-snobbery-is-at-heart-of-nhs-gender-war-mz8pdsw3s

Class snobbery is at heart of NHS gender war

Case of Sandie Peggie reveals a working-class woman being hounded by doctors and managers for wrongthink on trans ideology

https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/class-snobbery-is-at-heart-of-nhs-gender-war-mz8pdsw3s

OP posts:

NameChangedOfc · 03/08/2025 20:31

Thank you @DisappearingGirl and @EmpressaurusKitty for sharing 🙏👍

illinivich · 03/08/2025 21:46

NotfinanciallyresponsibleforyouSadTimes · 03/08/2025 19:38

What are you talking about? We are not going back to being kind because of an iceberg idea. Too many women have been intimidated by this ideology, forced to be quiet because they are too scared to speak. Women are being pushed out of sport. That’s what being kind has done for women.

why can’t we have women only spaces? Why can’t we have women only wards? Why can’t we have women only service provision? Why do we have to share with fully intact males eg Uptonogood ? He doesn’t come out of this Fife business all squeaky clean especially with all this note-taking nonsense and allegations of Sandie putting patients in danger.

Why do we all have to accept the erosion of our language with the introduction of chest-feeders, birth givers, cervix possessors? We are being eradicated for what?

Show quote history

Youve totally misunderstood everything i said.

TempestTost · 03/08/2025 22:26

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 03/08/2025 14:18

No, I probably wasn't clear enough. I think there was a kneejerk response from some people whose lives haven't been adversely affected by immigration, rather the contrary, to think that other people, living in completely different circumstances, should also be delighted to see uncontrolled immigration into their local areas. I also think there's been a head in the sand attitude to the problems caused by certain specific groups failing to integrate into UK society, to the extent that they don't all learn English and they cling to some attitudes and practices which are against UK law and/or which the majority of UK residents find unacceptable.

It's not simple, though. Many of the migrants who came here were better educated and trained and willing to work for lower wages and live in worse conditions than indigenous UK workers, so of course they got jobs. Many employers who took on migrants had really struggled to get anybody to do their work previously. We can argue about whether they would have had more success if they'd paid more but it isn't just that. Early starts, outdoor work, hard manual labour (e.g. picking fruit and veg) are never going to appeal to everybody and we have a fairly generous welfare system which keeps people going even if they never manage to last at a job for more than a few days. A sign that it wasn't just about unfair competition from migrants is that when a great many of them went home after Brexit farmers, care agencies, cafes and so on all struggled to find workers from those who are left.

Anyway, I've strayed a long way from Fife and the Peggie case.

I think this is why many wc people also are suspicious of the level/management of state support to the non-working, which tends to be dismissed by leftys as them being too stupid to know their own best interest.

After all, are we really supposed to think that people from other countries are naturally better suited to that kind of hard work? Or is it just that they deserve to do work like that but British born people shouldn't have to stoop to that?

That does seem like a rather racist POV, and I think most wc people don't believe that, they think that it must be culture or our social systems that account for the unwillingness of local people to do those jobs.

Abhannmor · 04/08/2025 09:31

You're not being realistic @TempestTost . First off - UK unemployment benefits are very stingy. And then you aren't comparing like with like. Farm workers from poor countries will put up with low wages and crap accommodation because they know it's for a limited time. When they go home they could have a nice grub stake , given exchange rates / prices in their home country. Not sure you could afford rent , mortgage or try to raise a family in the UK this way though.

I'm old enough to remember the chicken farmer Bernard Mathews adverts on TV. When his workers complained they couldn't live on his wages he advised them to apply to the DHSS for hardship grants iirc.
The old model can't last forever though. You run out of poor people to exploit.....

illinivich · 04/08/2025 10:07

The farm model is farmers pay minimum wage, and then charge for accommodation. So the actual cost of workers for them is lower than minimum wage.

Similarly, i know of companies that dont advertise work in the UK, its all done thought agencies who advertise abroad and provide accommodation.

I dont think the middle classes realise how many jobs are not only minimum wage, but have difficult conditions. For example, its easy to dismiss workers as not willing to work unsociable hours, but it can be impossible or unsafe to travel for 5am or after midnight using public transport.

I dont blame the companies, they are working in a very difficult market were profits are tight, but i think depending on what is effectively an underclass of foreign workers cannot be a solution.

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