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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Guardian article by trans woman

81 replies

Arran2024 · 31/07/2025 10:29

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/jul/31/transgender-rights-ehrc-guidance-single-sex-spaces

Zero concern for the rights of women. For example bemoaning the fact that a women's group of over 25 members cannot include a trans woman even if the others want to. Well, what if they don't want to? The choice the Supreme Court had to make was binary - sex or gender ID. The author is FtM and is not remotely affected by men in women's spaces. Infuriating.

The fight for trans safety is a fight for everyone’s safety – MPs must have the chance to debate it | Freddy McConnell

The supreme court has made a mockery of gender recognition. Our politicians must not allow the EHRC to further shatter trans lives, says journalist Freddy McConnell

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/jul/31/transgender-rights-ehrc-guidance-single-sex-spaces

OP posts:
AnSolas · 31/07/2025 12:23

CompleteGinasaur · 31/07/2025 11:40

The line that stood out for me was the opener - "The supreme court (sic) judgment on the application of the 2010 Equality Act has rendered the UK's system of legal gender recognition entirely hollow". Quite apart from the fact that surely a professional journalist should know that "Supreme Court" should be capitalised (one of my partner's pet names for was, in fact, "my little pedant"..), I laughed out loud at the blatant cheek of this - the "system of legal gender recognition" that McConnell mourns here was only ever an illusion conjured by Stonewall law and other appropriating activists, a mirage that the Supreme Court elucidation (not judgment) blew away like the tissue of lies that it was.

It has ruled that men like me who have gender recognition certificates are defined as women in equality law, which applies to organisations ranging from workplaces to public services and sporting bodies. Vice versa for trans women.

So legal men should not be allowed to rely on womens rights for employment law, access to social fund payments, public health etc while growing the babies bit?

Sigh

And not a single argument on how a woman who wants to join the mens club
ie
What they probably did not hear is that the EHRC’s interim guidance also says a women-men-only gardening club with more than 25 members will be legally required to exclude a trans woman, man, even if she’s he’s legally a woman man, and even if her his fellow members want her him there.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 31/07/2025 12:38

It's probably already been said, but Freddy McConnell is a trans man, or trans-identifying woman.

Freddy has absolutely no issue with being treated as a man for some purposes and a woman for other purposes, because Freddy is the same individual who made a legal declaration that she intended to live the rest of her life as a man in order to get a Gender Recognition Certificate making her legally male, and then almost immediately embarked on a planned cycle of fertility treatment in order to have her first child. She has since had a second child.

She also took legal action when she was not allowed to be listed on her child's birth certificate as the father, and when she was pregnant with her second child she widely announced her intention to give birth in Sweden so that she could register the birth there instead. I have no idea whether she has any entitlement to maternity care in Sweden or whether she planned to pay for fully private healthcare, but in any case, her second child scuppered her plans by arriving early.

Suffice to say, Freddy thinks that the world revolves around Freddy.

Some thoughts about this article:

The Supreme Court judgment on the application of the 2010 Equality Act has rendered the UK’s system of legal gender recognition entirely hollow. It has ruled that men like me who have gender recognition certificates are defined as women in equality law, which applies to organisations ranging from workplaces to public services and sporting bodies. Vice versa for trans women.

Yes, Freddy, this was what allowed you to benefit from female specific fertility treatment, maternity and postnatal care, maternity leave and legal protection from pregnancy and maternity related discrimination, you ungrateful little toad.

For context, the Gender Recognition Act 2004 was passed after the European court of human rights ruled that the “intermediate zone”, between two sexes, in which trans people were then forced to exist was – and, crucially, remains – unlawful.

This is bad law. The European Court of Human Rights overstepped the limits of their competence here and unleashed chaos as a result. The UK only signed up to the obligations in the European Convention of Human Rights as it was drafted in 1953. People now attempting to read between the lines and find things relating to transgender rights are finding things which simply are not there. If member countries want to recognise transgender identities and make the decision to pass gender recognition legislation themselves, it is of course within their remit to do so. But they should not be forced to do so by an unelected supranational court based on imaginary legal obligations they never agreed to.

Under the Gender Recognition Act, I am male “for all purposes”, but the Supreme Court decided this is not the case under the Equality Act. In effect, it is not the case in public.

Yes, that's right, your right to swing your fist ends where other people's noses begin. That's called living in a society.

Having run what human rights organisations criticised as an unusually short six-week public consultation, the Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) will soon update its code of practice about how this legal interpretation of the Equality Act will be applied. This will then go to parliament to be approved by ministers, as things stand, with no opportunity for debate.

The law is the law. The only people who get to debate it are our members of parliament. The correct form of action here is to write to your MP and express your displeasure. But the EHRC has to abide by the law.

Far from clarity, experts argue that the Supreme Court ruling has created legal uncertainty and contradiction and that the EHRC’s response has been highly questionable. Rather than despair, as understandable as that would be, many trans people live in hope that their MPs are fair, ethical people, who have simply not had the opportunity to fully understand any of this.

It's not unclear, you just don't like the answer.

Things were so different in 2016. When North Carolina passed a shocking “bathroom bill” banning trans people from using the correct bathroom, the Labour MP Ruth Cadbury told the Commons that “a bathroom bill would never be passed here in the UK”. In the same debate, the Conservative MP Caroline Dinenage welcomed a new NHS policy prescribing cross-sex hormones to young gender-variant people, acknowledging this was “consistent with international guidelines”, a description that, were it not for well-documented lobbying, would hold today.

Things have moved on since 2016, thank goodness. Women's voices are finally being heard. The world does not revolve around what trans people want. The rights of all groups must be fairly balanced.

Maria Miller, a former Conservative MP, cited fairer treatment of trans prisoners as progress “on which Britain leads the way”. Concluding, she said: “Better protecting trans people does not mean diminishing the protections in place for women. It is not a zero-sum game and we should not allow those who attempt to paint it as such, and who try to undermine the position and legitimate rights of trans people, to succeed.” What on earth has happened? Today, any MP who dared say that protecting trans people and protecting women go hand in hand would incur the wrath of politicians and commentators from the right to the centre left.

Maria Miller is an idiot. The conflict between the demands of the trans rights lobby and women's rights is now openly acknowledged, including by the Supreme Court.

Perhaps current Labour ministers privately justify the state’s capitulation to the anti-trans lobby as political expediency.

Or perhaps some of them understand that no one is above the law.

What they probably did not hear is that the EHRC’s interim guidance also says a women-only gardening club with more than 25 members will be legally required to exclude a trans woman, even if she’s legally a woman, and even if her fellow members want her there.

And this point would most likely never have been considered by the Supreme Court had it not been forced to rule on whether trans women must be included in everything that is supposed to be for women. This is called being hoist by your own petard.

Toseland · 31/07/2025 12:39

Repeal the GRA and let's be done with it. I'm so tired of reading these articles where black is hysterically argued to be white and women's rights are ignored.

GreenFriedTomato · 31/07/2025 12:43

No clicks from me either.
Moan moan moan. If the hypothetical womens group wants to include trans identified males, they can just make it a mixed group instead. Sorted.

miri1985 · 31/07/2025 12:46

Does anyone else remember when Freddy flounced from the Guardian in 2022. Can't find anything that explains why that didn't last, lack of interest from elsewhere?

"In a letter to the UK newspaper’s bosses seen by VICE World News, freelance journalists Freddy McConnell and Vic Parsons said they were declining all future work with the Guardian." https://www.vice.com/en/article/guardian-trans-journalists/?ref=wearequeeraf.com

Exclusive: Trans Journalists Pull Out of Guardian Newspaper’s Pride Coverage

Freelance journalists Freddy McConnell and Vic Parsons said they were declining all future work with the UK paper “until it changes its trans-hostile and exclusionary stance.”

https://www.vice.com/en/article/guardian-trans-journalists/?ref=wearequeeraf.com

PerfectTuesday · 31/07/2025 12:52

"What they probably did not hear is that the EHRC’s interim guidance also says a women-only gardening club with more than 25 members will be legally required to exclude a trans woman, even if she’s legally a woman, and even if her fellow members want her there."

Surely there would be nothing to stop the group from defining itself as a 'Women and transwomen gardening club' if they wanted to include transwomen?

SirRaymondClench · 31/07/2025 12:55

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 31/07/2025 11:17

Ah yes, FC who made a documentary film about her transition which showed her getting her Gender Recognition Certificate entitling her to have her birth certificate re-issued showing her sex as male, to get which she must have made a written undertaking to live as a man for the rest of her life. A few days later she went to a fertility clinic to start the process of having fertility treatment so she could become pregnant. She has given birth twice now and went to court to try to get the right to be shown as Father instead of Mother on her children's birth certificates. Fortunately she failed. She also took to social media to claim that she wasn't told that having a double mastectomy (for gender-related reasons) would mean she couldn't breastfeed if she had a baby. That Freddie.

Edited

What a mess!

ArabellaScott · 31/07/2025 12:56

GreenFriedTomato · 31/07/2025 12:43

No clicks from me either.
Moan moan moan. If the hypothetical womens group wants to include trans identified males, they can just make it a mixed group instead. Sorted.

Exactly. The gaslighting of the general public is over.

If you want to have something that's for 'women only', it has to be for women only.

It's not really all that surprising.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 31/07/2025 12:56

PerfectTuesday · 31/07/2025 12:52

"What they probably did not hear is that the EHRC’s interim guidance also says a women-only gardening club with more than 25 members will be legally required to exclude a trans woman, even if she’s legally a woman, and even if her fellow members want her there."

Surely there would be nothing to stop the group from defining itself as a 'Women and transwomen gardening club' if they wanted to include transwomen?

Technically they can't do that because they would no longer have the benefit of a legal exemption by which they can exclude other men.

ArabellaScott · 31/07/2025 12:56

PerfectTuesday · 31/07/2025 12:52

"What they probably did not hear is that the EHRC’s interim guidance also says a women-only gardening club with more than 25 members will be legally required to exclude a trans woman, even if she’s legally a woman, and even if her fellow members want her there."

Surely there would be nothing to stop the group from defining itself as a 'Women and transwomen gardening club' if they wanted to include transwomen?

No. Either it's mixed sex, and open to everyone, or it's restricted to one sex, or the other.

ArabellaScott · 31/07/2025 12:57

The instigating and overarching point of the EA, based on the Sex Discrimination act, was that you can't discriminate based on sex.

You can only do so in some limited circumstances, hence the SSEs.

RoyalCorgi · 31/07/2025 12:58

ArabellaScott · 31/07/2025 12:57

The instigating and overarching point of the EA, based on the Sex Discrimination act, was that you can't discriminate based on sex.

You can only do so in some limited circumstances, hence the SSEs.

EXACTLY! So fed up of trying to explain this to people.

Freddy is clearly not the sharpest tool in the box.

ArabellaScott · 31/07/2025 12:58

I'm not even going to IANAL anymore, because this legislation affects every single person in the UK and should be as clear as possible to everyone.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 31/07/2025 12:59

Yes, what you do is find a way of describing your gardening club which makes it unappealing to men who aren't trans women.

You could call yourselves the Gardening Fairies or something like that, which would probably be off-putting to your average alpha male.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 31/07/2025 13:00

ArabellaScott · 31/07/2025 12:58

I'm not even going to IANAL anymore, because this legislation affects every single person in the UK and should be as clear as possible to everyone.

It's OK, IAAL and you are entirely correct.

Motnight · 31/07/2025 13:00

Oh fuck off Freddie. I no longer have the patience to politely point out the ridiculousness of where we currently are.

WandaSiri · 31/07/2025 13:01

They keep moaning that they can't include MCW in women's groups, but what they actually mean is that they cannot exclude other men.
And a mixed sex group "for anyone in the local area who loves gardening" is intolerable for the same reason as third spaces are - not enough validation or handmaidening unless the group is "women-only" or "for women".

AnSolas · 31/07/2025 13:02

PerfectTuesday · 31/07/2025 12:52

"What they probably did not hear is that the EHRC’s interim guidance also says a women-only gardening club with more than 25 members will be legally required to exclude a trans woman, even if she’s legally a woman, and even if her fellow members want her there."

Surely there would be nothing to stop the group from defining itself as a 'Women and transwomen gardening club' if they wanted to include transwomen?

No the law says everything is mixed sex unless you have a good reason to only do single sex.

Once the club break the "good reason" and let one man in so go with a mixed sex club they can not exclude other men.

A solution would be new members are voted in by a % of the whole club rather than by % who attend any given meeting.

RareGoalsVerge · 31/07/2025 13:04

What they probably did not hear is that the EHRC’s interim guidance also says a women-only gardening club with more than 25 members will be legally required to exclude a trans woman, even if she’s legally a woman, and even if her fellow members want her there.

But if they want it to be an all-inclusive gardening club that's easy - they just make it a gardening club that is open to all, rather than it being women-only. Whatever reasons there were for founding a women-only gardening club, the reasons why men are excluded apply to Suzie who is biologically male but identifies as a woman, just as much as they do to any man.and if Suzie happens to be a genuinely nice person and none of the reasons why other male people are excluded seem to apply, that's fine but then Gerald who is just as nice, just as non-threatening and just as non-dominant but who doesn't identify as a woman has just as much of a right to be admitted as Suzie does. What the gardening club needs to do is work out what their actual membership criteria are, but if they want to include Suzie then they can't have "being female" as one of the criteria, that's all. Perhaps the Gardening Club was founded as all-women because the official village Gardening Club is dominated by George and Jeffrey who have a whole toxic-masculinity rivalry going on and the women wanted to opt out of that and so did Suzie (and Gerald, for that matter) so rather than making it Women Only they just have to write their constitution to make overly-competitive toxic masculinity wankery a behavior that will get you expelled so that George and Jeffrey can't join. Job done. It's not like gardening needs to be done in a single-sex environment for reasons of privacy, decency or safety.

LittleBitofBread · 31/07/2025 13:11

Freddy McConnell is a fucking grifter

RareGoalsVerge · 31/07/2025 13:35

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 31/07/2025 12:59

Yes, what you do is find a way of describing your gardening club which makes it unappealing to men who aren't trans women.

You could call yourselves the Gardening Fairies or something like that, which would probably be off-putting to your average alpha male.

I love this! A wonderful way of excluding the type of male who makes a gardening club inhospitable to women, without excluding the nice ones, or the transwomen. They can write into their constitution that they are not single sex despite members being predominantly women, but anyone can be a Gardening Fairy if they uphold the values of tolerance, kindness, cooperativeness and generosity, and the leadership team reserve the right to ask anyone to leave if they exhibit a dominating or aggressive attitude which is toxic to these fairy ideals. Then it's clear that men, including transwomen, are able to join so long as they don't spoil it for others. We know that some transwomen only want to join a women-only group in order to get "validation" but sometimes they genuinely just want to have a good in-depth conversation about rose-pruning techniques without having to deal with the toxic-masculinity addicts.

WigglesMadness · 31/07/2025 13:35

It's rare to hear from a transman, it's usually the transwomen who are out demanding their rights.

Freddy has managed to adopt a sense of male entitlement, so more successful in the transitioning than the pregnancies had led me to believe.

SirRaymondClench · 31/07/2025 13:44

Freddie: Does everyone know about me? Can everyone pay attention to me please? HEY everyone please acknowledge how very special I am thanks...

FlirtsWithRhinos · 31/07/2025 13:51

It's just incoherent.

"We are a walking group that doesn't want to fit into that narrow definition on "Woman""

"No problem! You don't have to! Call yourself whatever you want as long as it's not Women-only walking group!"

"No no no!!!! We still want to be called a Women-only walking group! That is essential! We just don't want to be a Woman- only walking group. We want the word "Woman" to mean something different so we can keep using it!!"

"Ummm... but why do you want to be called Women even though if you don't agree with what the word means? Why not find a new word that already means the thing you want Women to mean?"

"No you don't understand, Women always meant that, it's just nobody knew."

"Ummm... that's not how language works. ..."

Genderism in a nutshell!

Ereshkigalangcleg · 31/07/2025 13:54

Exactly @FlirtsWithRhinos