I have a DSD and am fed up.

[DSDFury]

A DSD (Disorder/Difference of Sexual Development) is a congenital medical condition, usually resulting in sterility, as it does in my case. Broadly, it means there is chromosomal or other genetic anomaly which has resulted in the foetus not developing along typical lines for a male or female. Not all the resulting abnormalities are external, and we are certainly not hermaphrodites.

I am sick to death of DSDs being co-opted by the trans movement as "proof" that sex isn't binary. I am not some weird third sex, I am not part of a spectrum, and I don't feel the need to tell everyone about my condition.

I am sick to death of DSDs being misrepresented as an identity (looking at you, Fife NHS). It comes with some shitty elements such as infertility, but that is just one of many, many things that makes me who I am. I am a very ordinary middle-aged woman who shops in M&S and doesn't have blue hair.

I don't want to be in the sodding rainbow, I don't want to be on a flag and I absolutely don't want to be seen as synonymous with trans (looking at you, Women's Institute).

To (possibly) coin a phrase, I have "gender euphoria". I have never doubted for a second that I am female and I was delighted to finally go through puberty once I had been diagnosed. I don't believe that my spirit has been fortuitously put in the correct body or any such nonsense; I am female because I embody a body which has a womb and a vagina rather than a penis and testicles. I look, and sound, entirely female in every respect.

I do want our existence to be acknowledged, as in certain situations (mainly medical, but some legal) it is important to recognise this group of conditions. However I think conflating us with trans hinders this far, far more than helps, as it obfuscates the issue.

I am not particularly concerned about the implications of the Supreme Court ruling, certainly don't regard it as genocide (ridiculous hyperbole) and think it would have been insane for it to go any other way, although I fervently hope that anyone in charge of policy has sufficient knowledge of these conditions to be aware that there will be people whose chromosomes do not match their phenotype/appearance because of a medical condition rather than because they are trans.

People on the Feminism board seem to be extremely knowledgeable, but I bet a sizeable sector of the general population would be surprised by more than one thing I have written,

Thank you for reading.

Klinefelter syndrome. Affects men.

Thank you for posting this. It shouldn't be your job to educate people, but its clear that DSDs are very misunderstood. People see the athletes failing tests to compete and those who identify differently, and forget that there are normal people with medical conditions who just want to live their lives.

But are you Ginger as well ? 😎

And as the Scottish museums nutters reckon there are a million of you who do not know which toilet to go in ....

Without wishing to sound insensitive- wow that’s wild. What a way to think about it!

I’m sorry about all the ways life is harder for you as a result.
Bodies actually suck. Big time. I think one of the irritants for me is the whole rejection of the body we have been lumped with, as though everyone else is just thrilled with it.

I’m fortunate, mine works more or less as it should. Broadly speaking. But that doesn’t mean I like it and don’t wish I had a different type of body! A more convenient one, and ideally somewhat better looking.

But bodies suck, even when they are working well.

Yes, it rather blew my mind when I realised that!

Other than that my body actually works pretty well. I'm shit at sport, but pretty healthy and still slim in my 50s without having to try too hard.

I don't wish to be insensitive either, but that it a really interesting point. What makes you you?
If you had had a functioning SRY gene, presumably you'd still have all the other genes you have, so you'd still be eg predisposed to diabetes, have good hand eye coordination, etc. Your upbringing would be more or less the same, so you'd still live under the shadow of getting diabetes and your parents would still recognise your good hand eye coordination and pay for your tennis lessons which forms a good part of your social life. You would still be raised with the values you have now - your parents maybe highly valued honesty and hard work.
But perhaps they treated you a little differently due to your sex, even if they didn't mean to. And obviously all the experiences related to having a male body would change you, particularly post puberty.
But surely in essence, with almost entirely the same genes, plus the same upbringing, you'd be mostly 'you', as a personality?

I think the "Ooh, I don't know my own chromosomes" rhetoric from people who have no reason to believe they have a DSD is similar to the way some people talk about OCD and autism.

In the Beth Upton tribunal these were medical staff who should have known better.

I agree with this.

Infertility is devastating, but it doesn't follow that understanding fertility and reproduction isn't important, and we do that by classifying sex.

As you say, sex is not a judgement of somebody's worth. A holly bush can have a sex and horrifying stories in the news confirm that the worst people in the world can reproduce. Humans have value and rights simply because they are human.

It's hard to say, but I guess the essence would be the same.

However, it goes beyond personality and how my parents would have treated me. All my formal and informal experiences associated with being female rather than male would have been different, so I wouldn't have gone to a girls' school, my childhood friends would have been mainly boys rather than girls, I would have been the same sex as my brother (and so probably shared a room) rather than my sister, I would have worn different clothes, played different sports, gone to cubs rather than brownies and, assuming I was still straight, I wouldn't have had any of the relationships I've had. I might have been more or less successful at navigating society as a man. I might have had children and I wouldn't have had to undergo the medical investigations and treatment related to my condition.

So quite a few things!

I didn't say sex isn't a judgement of somebody's worth (although of course it isn't), I said that the ability to reproduce isn't a judgement of somebody's worth.

My sister has CAIS, but is definitely a woman even though she has a Y chromosome. I haven't spoken with her about trans issues but I know she would be absolutley infuriated by having her condition co-opted to further their cause.

Sorry, I was incorrectly paraphrasing.

I also agree that the ability to reproduce is not related to worth.

Thank you for sharing your story so eloquently OP. It’s such an important voice to raise, and one not often heard in this debate. And I take your point about discussions about periods and pregnancies being what “living like a woman” is ALL about making things even shittier for you. I would not have thought about that and have been guilty of it myself. Thanks for drawing our attention to it.

OP I hate to tell you this, but you aren't coining a phrase with "gender euphoria", and I won't curse you with the mental image of what it normally refers to.

Thank you so much for sharing. You might like this article that explains the science really well.

https://janhavinilekani.substack.com/p/inclusivity-in-healthcare-should

Oh! Now you say that I can well imagine... Ugh.

Please could you link to this thread? I haven't come across it and would like to read it.

“I am not particularly concerned about the implications of the Supreme Court ruling,”

DSDFury, can I ask if you think that in your particular case that you have enough protection under the current EA or if you think more needs to be done to provide protection.

Away with you!!! The number of images I have come across before they booted the porn pics off twitter that were about “gender euphoria” was unbelievable.

Thanks so much for starting this discussion . I just don't think enough people actually stop and really think about what they are doing when they co-opt DSD into the trans debate, or disorders like Turner's Syndrome or Kleinfelter's into the DSD umbrella.

I'm completely with you and furious to be given as some sort of "gotcha" argument for why sex isn't binary or biological, or a clear concept in a debate about why perfectly healthy, physically normally developing males can't suddenly declare that a feeling makes them a woman - and therefore able to ride roughshod over sex-based women's rights.

Many people with DSD are living, thriving proof that you can deal with gender confusion and society's expectations of a gender normative behaviour. In my case I spent my early life socialised as a boy, but I'm not! I had a lot to deal with when it became clear that female puberty was on the cards and therefore I was going to grow up to be a woman. Not what I expected or wanted when I was younger, but it's reality and it's one I learned to accept and finally like (now). I am always at a loss as to why gender affirmation caught on. Compassionate help to accept the reality of your sex works.

Also massively grateful for this thread OP. I hate that it always takes those living with the impact of their conditions to have to educate others as well. Like they haven't enough to be dealing with. More widely society should better support education and awareness raising of the impact of rare or "hidden" conditions and disabilities.

Thank you OP, and others with direct experience.

I do tend to agree with @orkidto some extent - sometimes women on this board oversimplify and can get dogmatic about aspects of DSDs when the subject arises. It’s not always helpful either to people with DSDs or women’s rights.

I don't think my "lived experience" makes me any more of an expert here and I'm perhaps being naïve, but I can't think of a situation where my condition is likely to cause an issue in day-to-day life. I think the chances of having to provide a karyotype test before using a public toilet or changing rooms are pretty slim. I would maybe feel differently if I were involved in sport at a high level, but even then any sensible test (i.e. one that did not look solely at chromosomes) would show that I have no genetic advantage.

I do need to sit down and read the ruling properly at some point. While it obviously wasn't "aimed" at people with DSDs, that doesn't mean their particular circumstances should be disregarded.

I can't imagine how difficult that must have been

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379434-transwomen-and-transmen-do-not-have-dsds-discuss?reply=145983848&utm_campaign=reply&utm_medium=share