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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Let Women Speak Free Your Face Event

216 replies

IwantToRetire · 07/07/2025 01:12

We will all walk to Speakers' Corner at 2.00 and read out the testimonies of women who speak about the niqab. I have something visual planned so we can elevate the voices of women who exist in a fabric prison, often, of their familys construction.

On the day I will hand out copies of testimonies for women to read at the heart of Speakers' Corner. We need as many women as possible to attend. This is your chance to show you care.

From https://www.letwomenspeak.org/event-details/let-women-speak-london-free-your-face-2025-06-29-13-00

Had not heard about this, but now there are a number of responses to the event such as this one:

In Keen’s , Muslim women are portrayed as passive, voiceless, and trapped by family, culture, and male insecurity. The veil is a “fabric prison,” and the women behind it are posited as unable to speak, act, or even “feel sunlight on their skin” without male permission. Their desires, commitments, and beliefs are never considered on their own terms. Instead, they are rendered legible through the eyes, imagination and political desire of Kellie-Jay.

The few “testimonies” —attributed to women in the Middle East—were anonymous, unverified, and clearly cherry-picked. It’s hard to believe that Keen’s public pronouncements on “Islamism” elicit nothing but thank-yous and confessions of helplessness. Of course, as an activist and propagandist, she’s under no obligation to include
counterarguments or opposing views.These testimonies function as a moral shield, allowing Keen and Let Women Speak to deflect critique with the familiar refrain: “These aren’t my words…” Indeed, her X/Twitter feed is awash with anonymized grateful wards, caged in fabric. These women are cast as mute victims—unable to interpret or change their own lives—and, by implication, grateful and dependent on these liberated English roses to speak for them.

https://morbidsymptom.substack.com/p/veilface?

DM coverage https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14858363/Moment-womens-rights-campaigners-Niqab-veil-free-face-London-protest.html

(Sorry if there is a thread about this already but couldn't find anything. If there is one please post link. Thanks.)

Veilface

Enjoy Orientalism! Disavow Genocide!

https://morbidsymptom.substack.com/p/veilface

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longbag · 07/07/2025 16:03

"Islamophobic" is just a word used to try to silence any criticism of Islam.

One should pay no heed to any accusations of "Islamophobia" for this reason.

Let's not pretend that all religions are equal in their stance towards women and girls. Islam is particularly misogynistic, both as written and in practice.

POWNewcastleEastWallsend · 07/07/2025 16:06

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 07/07/2025 16:02

Och, Bee, you're too young to know the A-Team. I'm not, and JKR isn't. Google could tell you:

The A-Team is known for its memorable quotes, often delivered by Hannibal Smith and B.A. Baracus. Some of the most popular include "I love it when a plan comes together," "I ain't gettin' on no plane!", and "I pity the fool!"

And plenty of cigar moments:

Nothing to do with any of the people you mentioned.

Now we will all be waiting for a chance to reply to Chris saying, "I ain't gettin' on no plane!"

😂

myplace · 07/07/2025 16:07

I’m happy to say that I don’t want the UK to be a place where women are coerced into wearing modest clothing.

myplace · 07/07/2025 16:09

That music. Really takes me back. Life was simpler then… 🤣

POWNewcastleEastWallsend · 07/07/2025 16:11

longbag · 07/07/2025 16:03

"Islamophobic" is just a word used to try to silence any criticism of Islam.

One should pay no heed to any accusations of "Islamophobia" for this reason.

Let's not pretend that all religions are equal in their stance towards women and girls. Islam is particularly misogynistic, both as written and in practice.

Time for a blast of Christopher Hitchens from 2009:

Christopher Hitchens on Islam and Freedom of Speech

Ereshkigalangcleg · 07/07/2025 16:52

POWNewcastleEastWallsend · 07/07/2025 16:06

Now we will all be waiting for a chance to reply to Chris saying, "I ain't gettin' on no plane!"

😂

🤣

Maryslion · 07/07/2025 16:56

Ramblingnamechanger · 07/07/2025 08:54

If the niqab is so great why aren’t men wearing them? I can understand why women do not want visibility in front of the men in their communities . Some are virtue signalling their faith to others. Some will free themselves when in women’s company. The problem as always is men, and we are allowed to be critical of their oppressive religions and ideas.

If the niqab is so great why aren’t men wearing them?

Because women are required to cover to stop Muslim men from going to hell. Adultery and fornication lead to hell in Islamic teaching, so the job of women is to not sexually arouse men.

Men don't cover (there is hijabi clothing for men but its much more practical and much less restrictive) because female sexual desire and agency does not seem to have occurred as a concept to Islamic thinkers. And covering up would have been hot and a fag, so the men wouldn't want to do that.

I know a lot of educated UK Muslim women, including ( perhaps especially) reverts, have reframed the niqab as a spiritual exercise that brings them closer to God, but that isn't the origin of it.

There is a popular young Muslim couple who make you tube videos etc. The women styles herself as quirky and in charge, but her videos are all about the obstacles her clothing and niqab bring to her life, but not her omnipresent husband's. I don't understand how she can't see that this is the takeaway from her videos.

The inequality in Islam is so clearly expressed in the clothing. When you see cool men and sweltering women. When you see men enjoying the simple pleasure of sun and breeze on skin and women not. When you see women who have made themselves a blank wall to the world by covering their faces, whilst men have not. Women are asked to make this ' choice' but men are not, and that is where the inequality and objection to this clothing lies.

ArabellaScott · 07/07/2025 17:41

ArabellaScott · 07/07/2025 09:32

Is anyone effectively helping women who are "being pressured in relation to Islamic dress", in this country or in countries such as Afghanistan?

I don't know of any organisations involved in this. It is quite specific.

The Amina organisation in Glasgow does great work, including specifically on 'taboo' topics.

https://mwrc.org.uk/vawg/vawg-campaigns/

Goodness me, my memory gets worse and worse.

Of course, there is 'My Stealthy Freedom', campaigning for women in Iraq. Very brave women. Just realised I'd forgotten about it.

www.mystealthyfreedom.org/

Ereshkigalangcleg · 07/07/2025 18:07

Thanks for posting these links to campaigns @ArabellaScott

ArabellaScott · 07/07/2025 18:16

Women in Iran are not allowed to ride bicycles, either.

https://www.mystealthyfreedom.org/cycling-unveiled-against-patriarchy-in-iran/

IwantToRetire · 07/07/2025 18:28

There are some women support groups listed here, but it maybe the name of the group itself would alienate some women wanting support ie they dont consider themselves Ex Muslims
https://ex-muslim.org.uk/all-events/

OP posts:
IwantToRetire · 07/07/2025 18:32

The One Law for All Group has been running for some years https://onelawforall.org.uk/ and suspect that at one time or another most of us will have heard of Maryam Namazie

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IwantToRetire · 07/07/2025 18:33

Recent submission to the WEC
https://www.secularism.org.uk/news/2025/05/nss-warns-religious-charities-spreading-online-misogyny

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IwantToRetire · 07/07/2025 18:34

Muslim Women's Network Helpline is a national specialist faith and culturally sensitive helpline that is confidential and non-judgmental, which offers information, support, guidance and referrals for those who are suffering from or at risk of abuse or facing problems on a range of issues.

Although our reach is primarily Muslim women, the helpline will accept calls from and support women of any faith or no faith. For example, the culturally sensitive nature of the helpline could easily support Asian women of other faiths. Men who are concerned about women and girls should also call the helpline. If men and boys need support, for example, at risk of forced marriage, then they should also call the helpline.

https://www.mwnuk.co.uk/mwn-helpline

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IwantToRetire · 07/07/2025 18:47

I actually haven't read the long article critiquing the event, but for myself I very much doubt that a LWS event focusing on this issue (which is symbolic of a large social, religious structure) will help the women who are being compelled to dress and behave in a manner approved by men.

And I dont have any particular responses either way to the use of the phrase "white saviour" but do believe that we need to work on ways to empower women so that they can themselves find a way of rejecting the male structures and individuals that are oppressing them.

But time will tell, whether the event was, as most LWS events are, a positive experience for those who are there, as opposed to creating a way that women can be supported or feel able to challenge themselves.

ie after yesterday when I saw a flurry of posts on FB about this, have not seen any follow up.

OP posts:
TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 07/07/2025 19:56

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 07/07/2025 16:02

Och, Bee, you're too young to know the A-Team. I'm not, and JKR isn't. Google could tell you:

The A-Team is known for its memorable quotes, often delivered by Hannibal Smith and B.A. Baracus. Some of the most popular include "I love it when a plan comes together," "I ain't gettin' on no plane!", and "I pity the fool!"

And plenty of cigar moments:

Nothing to do with any of the people you mentioned.

He's been told it before, but he's ignoring it because it doesn't fit his 'far narrative' when he trolls women's rights campaigner.

He's also oblivious to the fact that the 'far right' attack is a toothless as a gummy bare, nobody's buying the scare tactic's any more.
KJK is a brave women and she's helping to shine a light on the abysmal life some women in the country are living.

It's time women in the west started paying more attention to the concern's women of other culture's have, now we've put the genderwang crap in the bin, we'll have more time to focus on other women's rights issues.

Datun · 07/07/2025 20:21

BeeSouriante · 07/07/2025 15:36

75 white people..erm..of an age looking utterly ridiculous and lead by a far right troll.

Seeing those pictures, I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry. It reminds me of that GC guy who stalks trans ppl IRL (Mr Menno?) ran around in an all in one black outfit or when JKR did that picture with a cigar and everyone IDed her as doing an impression of Andrew Tate (or for the older people, Jimmy Saville).

Perhaps if I hadn't had to deal with 'GCs' for a decade, I would just say that it's hapless people being cringe whilst their hearts are in the right place, but KJK has so many connections with white nats and far right, it will never be so 'harmless'

Whatever. You still have to stay out the ladies, mate

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 07/07/2025 21:02

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 07/07/2025 19:56

He's been told it before, but he's ignoring it because it doesn't fit his 'far narrative' when he trolls women's rights campaigner.

He's also oblivious to the fact that the 'far right' attack is a toothless as a gummy bare, nobody's buying the scare tactic's any more.
KJK is a brave women and she's helping to shine a light on the abysmal life some women in the country are living.

It's time women in the west started paying more attention to the concern's women of other culture's have, now we've put the genderwang crap in the bin, we'll have more time to focus on other women's rights issues.

He's been told it before I know, but other people see it and it's always worth putting it right for them.

Plus I found John Hannibal Smith saying the original quote in that "Best of..." youtube clip - at 4.30 and 5.27 - cigar and all. And at 5.02 he's wearing a very fetching pink and blue striped headscarf and curly wig. What's not to enjoy?

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 07/07/2025 21:21

BeeSouriante · 07/07/2025 15:36

75 white people..erm..of an age looking utterly ridiculous and lead by a far right troll.

Seeing those pictures, I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry. It reminds me of that GC guy who stalks trans ppl IRL (Mr Menno?) ran around in an all in one black outfit or when JKR did that picture with a cigar and everyone IDed her as doing an impression of Andrew Tate (or for the older people, Jimmy Saville).

Perhaps if I hadn't had to deal with 'GCs' for a decade, I would just say that it's hapless people being cringe whilst their hearts are in the right place, but KJK has so many connections with white nats and far right, it will never be so 'harmless'

You're showing your ignorance. Not only was that appallingly ageist, but (far more importantly) you meant "led" not "lead". The youth of today ... [mutters into his ancient beard and pulls his blanket over his creaking knees).

Datun · 07/07/2025 21:28

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 07/07/2025 21:21

You're showing your ignorance. Not only was that appallingly ageist, but (far more importantly) you meant "led" not "lead". The youth of today ... [mutters into his ancient beard and pulls his blanket over his creaking knees).

Here, share my flask of tea ☕️

POWNewcastleEastWallsend · 07/07/2025 22:30

IwantToRetire · 07/07/2025 18:47

I actually haven't read the long article critiquing the event, but for myself I very much doubt that a LWS event focusing on this issue (which is symbolic of a large social, religious structure) will help the women who are being compelled to dress and behave in a manner approved by men.

And I dont have any particular responses either way to the use of the phrase "white saviour" but do believe that we need to work on ways to empower women so that they can themselves find a way of rejecting the male structures and individuals that are oppressing them.

But time will tell, whether the event was, as most LWS events are, a positive experience for those who are there, as opposed to creating a way that women can be supported or feel able to challenge themselves.

ie after yesterday when I saw a flurry of posts on FB about this, have not seen any follow up.

Watch this space . . . if image approved by Mumsnet . . .

🤷‍♀️

Let Women Speak Free Your Face Event
Plasticwaste · 07/07/2025 22:30

Bergamotte · 07/07/2025 14:59

How did you know she was wearing sunglasses, if she had a burqa on?

Niqab, then.

Also, I see my post has been deleted. Observations of sexism within patriarchal religions not wanted on a feminist board, apparently.

POWNewcastleEastWallsend · 07/07/2025 22:35

Plasticwaste · 07/07/2025 22:30

Niqab, then.

Also, I see my post has been deleted. Observations of sexism within patriarchal religions not wanted on a feminist board, apparently.

"Observations of sexism within patriarchal religions not wanted on a feminist board, apparently."

Crikey! Is that the next censorship of wrong think we are going to have to tip toe around?!

RufustheFactualReindeer · 07/07/2025 22:46

when JKR did that picture with a cigar and everyone IDed her as doing an impression of Andrew Tate (or for the older people, Jimmy Saville)

yeah, not everyone

people with taste recognised the quote…