Non binary

[loveforautumn]

Hello!
Not sure if this is the right group but here goes..

My sons just come down to me and said his friend is non binary and he thinks he is. He's 12, his first year in secondary school so its a crazy year for him anyway and wonder if hes picked it up from others but I replied with that's fine you do you, also as your happy im happy

I have no idea what it really means so had to Google it & I still dont fully understand what it means?
He's changed over the last few months hes a very placid, lovely child and just floats around. Im so happy he felt he could come and tell me & he thanked me for being ok with it

Has anyone else had this? Did you do anything or just let them float through finding themselves?

As others have said please be wary of AidaP’s advice - no parent wants their 12 yo exposed to kink.

Yes to accept and move on. Keep a wary eye out. A few years ago this used to lead to friendship groups saying they were trans. Transgender Trend https://www.transgendertrend.com/ have some great resources. Hopefully it won’t happen with your DS.

Best advice always is to focus on your relationship as you already do and do lots of fun stuff that is nothing to do with NB. Good luck 🤞

Before you listen to AidaP I suggest you have a browse through this thread at his replies, and make your own mind up as to whether he should be advising anyone about parenting or anything involving children.

Non binary is a nonsense that relies purely on the fact that gender stereotypes are more rigidly adhered to, to the point where many young people feel they cannot express themselves freely without identifying into this harmful ideology.

The thing is, it is not just that particular poster. There are others too.

As others have said Aida P is a man who does not understand child development or safeguarding. Ignore his advice.

It's very normal for children of this age to try on different identities as they figure out who they are. Some will persist, most won't.

In this instance it seems it would probably not have occurred to him had it not been for his friend.

I would say something like "whoever you are is fine with me" - as it seems you have done -and leave it at that. Don't encourage or discourage. It is highly likely it will soon be forgotten about.

mumsnet probably wont be the best place for advice on this situation. just loads of people telling you your child is crazy. to learn more id suggest asking your DC as they are the only one who understands their situation entirely

OP's child is not 'crazy'. OP's child is 12.

Children are not able to understand a situation entirely, because they're children. This is what parenting is for.

Nope, not one post has said that. 🤯

There is actually a sentiment that is detrimental to safeguarding that says ‘children know their own mind and parents should only listen and learn’ around particular issues. Two of those issues are based in queer theory.

I think anyone giving the kind of advice which advises parents unquestioningly consider their child’s views about themselves needs to really think about what they might unintentionally be supporting. And that it might undermine parental safeguarding efforts.

Who has said that?

Also, they're 12.

What 'understanding' do you think they're bringing? Beyond, 'my friend has said this'.

However, these posts provide a very useful demonstration for OP of the kind of thing that women/mothers on this board are discussing.

I really don’t think some posters put much thought into the platitudes they repeat such as ‘id suggest asking your DC as they are the only one who understands their situation entirely’.

It is seriously concerning to see this kind of advice given about identity. What 12 year old understands their situation entirely? They can only understand it from a 12 year old’s perspective.

And it is rather enlightening considering that poster hadn’t bothered to read the thread. Where they would have picked up posters giving advice on how to judge whether someone’s advice was likely to be balanced and good parenting.

It was great timing as just another example of poor quality advice from posters who seem to have entrenched prejudices. And not in the way they meant it.

No one suggested this child is crazy. Although one poster did suggest therapy, most people would think that's pretty OTT for a child going through a phase.

Children who declare what has been called 'gender incongruence' or 'gender questioning' identities can be at risk of attracting the attention of groomers.

One main story one often hears is that anyone with an identity of this type is at risk of being rejected by family/friends/society. This can be used to push alienation and encourage distance from family, friends, and support networks. As most parents recognise, this can be part of or a precursor to grooming.

OP, I would not worry overly about this, in most situations and probably in your situation, it's most likely to be a minor thing. Listening to and talking with your child and allowing him to come to his own conclusions in his own time is greatm and sounds like you've handled it well.

However, as Helle says upthread, it would also be sensible to inform yourself more about 'gender questioning' and 'gender identity' so that you have a better understanding of the issues involved.

All children are by definition vulnerable, but some are more so, and there are people who are keen on accessing vulnerable children. Always have been, always will be.

Part of the problem is the narrative that any parent who asks questions or sets rules or boundaries is 'rejecting' the child, and this is supported by potentially risky narratives like 'children know best', as a poster upthread suggests.

Children cannot know best. They think they know best, and adolescence is a risky stage precisely because of this. The naivety of being so innocent they don't even know that they're innocent.

I'd tell him, as a ppl suggested, that he'll always be a boy/man but he can be any kind of boy/man he wants.

I'd also point out that if non-binary means not entirely aligning with the stereotypes associated with one sex or the other, then almost everyone in the world is 'non-binary', so it really doesn't need a label. It's not some kind of separate category of human.

Everybody is the sex they are. That is just a fact. What has " fitting" got to do with anything? Who 'fits' their sex? What does that even mean?

Non binary is a recent term and framing device for young people who want to reject heavy gender stereotyping; or who want to feel. a little exploratory or edgy. 15 years ago they would have come out as an Emo, and a few years before that as a Goth. Both of these youth subcultures permitted space for boys and girls - young people -to experiment with clothing and style in unconventional ways, and listen to music which stimulated the emotions...especialy the angsty ones or the more brooding ones.

People here are parents, grandparents and many have worked with children and young people in their profession.

Young people of that age are starting to form their identity as individuals, away from the family unit...they naturally seek to experiment or try on different 'clothing'. Young people have always done this; everyone here has done this.

'Non binary' is just the latest label or identifier in a long history of such things. The main danger with it, though, is that it potentially leads young people into radical surgeries and the taking of substances that are actively damaging or harmful to their bodies -and with life long consequence -in pursuit of something that is not true.

There's now a huge crossover with emo/trans/non-binary etc - still all about young people feeling different, that they don't belong, and seeking identity.

I took my DD to a My Chemical Romance concert a few years ago and you've never seen so much blue hair in one place in your life 😄

Goodness. At 12 I knew I didn't fit in with a lot of stereotypes of femininity. Thank goodness that just led me to realise I was a feminist, not that I was non-binary! How many people feel comfortable with gender stereotypes, and feel it fits them perfectly? Very few I would think

What is non binary? Not agreeing with the sexist characteristics of the sex binary? If that's the case I'm non binary. I'm not feminine, short hair, live in jeans or shorts. I grew up in the 70s and 80s and things are definitely getting more sexist. There's a lot more trying to fit into boxes now and if you don't fit with the masculine traits then you can't be a boy/man. Best thing is just to say sex doesn't define you as to your characteristics it is just a biological fact. He can be anything he wants, kind, caring, considerate, quiet.

It is a shame that distinctive music sub-cultures are no longer a thing amongst young people. Music has become thoroughly commercilaised and digitised to the point where it exists as nothing but background sound now.

Non binary/trans is really the only sub culture available

That’s nice dear. So am i. And everyone else ie no one fits 100% into gender stereotypes

On the other hand, there are only 2 sexes…

Love your username

In the end most people are cis, and they never spent a second of their life seriously questioning it.

I actually suspect this is something with which many posters here would disagree. I do wonder if it's another key difference between the male and female experiences of growing up.

Many girls are deeply uncomfortable with their bodies in their teenaged years - not just a superficial, Adrian Mole, awkward curiosity, but a visceral unease or even dislike.

And for most of us here, this also came with a deeply-felt sense of being "different" or even "wrong".

My teenaged years were defined by a stoical, troubled resistance to flirting and make-up and dresses and gossip. I detested the way my peers succumbed to it, and found it degrading to be associated with them - found it degrading, at times, to be female, in fact. If "non-binary" had existed then, I'd have clung to it like a deceptive life raft. Deceptive, because it would have confirmed my conviction that I was somehow fundamentally different.

Because I wasn't. It was simply that teen hormones + a highly sexualised society was working its ugly magic on my peers, and I recognised and felt uncomfortable with that. I was no more, or less, female, or girl, than they were.

The thought that I could have been inveigled into the kind of support groups or counselling Aida suggests above, simply as a result of resenting bodily changes that highlighted my physical vulnerability, and feminine stereotyping, is horrifying. No longer been simply an independent thinker, oh, no. Instead, not "matched" with my body. Part of a tiny minority who could benefit from actual therapy because of my entirely natural resistance to the box society's representation of my female body was trying the squeeze me into!

I could very easily say I'm non-binary now. I actually think I fit the definition. Unease with my body in some respects - yes. With gendered roles in many (all?) respects - hell, yes!

If I am non-binary, though, where does that leave everyone else? As a contented, signed-up member of a neat "gender binary"? There's really no such thing. (Except perhaps for a dysphoric trans person, whose resistance to their birth sex is so absolute that the define themselves in opposition to it?)

Anyway, to my mind, to say I'm non-binary would be to uphold an artificial binary that does no one any favours.

It's such a bizarrely absolutist way of thinking. It feels so very reductive and regressive.