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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Single-sex spaces tsar will also lead reforms to make gender swap easier

46 replies

Igneococcus · 03/07/2025 22:07

This government really is a bunch of disingenuous feckers.
"The official in charge of leading the government’s response will be employed by the LGBT+ policy team, rather than the women’s policy team, a decision that raised concerns among colleagues over impartiality."

https://www.thetimes.com/article/1043dd5a-11c1-4e1d-86bf-cae2c7f034d8?shareToken=cb5ab14f1bf8bf6981050dd98de978f5

Single-sex spaces tsar will also lead reforms to make gender swap easier

The same civil servant who will implement the Supreme Court ruling on the definition of a woman will make it simpler for people to legally change their gender

https://www.thetimes.com/article/1043dd5a-11c1-4e1d-86bf-cae2c7f034d8?shareToken=cb5ab14f1bf8bf6981050dd98de978f5

OP posts:
Tallisker · 04/07/2025 09:17

This is the captured civil service, of course.

WithSilverBells · 04/07/2025 09:27

GallantKumquat · 04/07/2025 09:14

Yes, this seems to be the TRAs' take. There has been a marked uptick in applications for GRCs (especially after the SC ruling if social media is to be believed) - it seems to be a belief that if a critical mass can be achieved and the holders are belligerent enough, they can put an end to single-sex services and spaces in practice since no one will be able to prove, even in the face of obvious physical evidence, that someone is trans.

Ensuring that birth sex can't be expunged from a persons record's and ensuring the integrity of any future digital sex marker is a high priority of SexMatters for this reason. With the data bill trans sympathetic Labour MPs may have drawn the conclusion that there's relatively low political cost to pursuing this particular avenue for advancing trans rights - in contrast to amending the EA or having the EHRC becoming an aggressive promoter of trans activism again which would both most likely be bloody public battles. So, there may be a shared agenda between TRAs and that Labour faction. Streeting's concerns about NHS records, however, shows that Labour is far from unified on this score.

Edited

Yes, this is my worry.
It is crucial that the 'sex' data in Digital ID should be linked to the original birth registration, not to the GRC-amended certificate. There would still be no obligation on the ID holder to disclose their sex, though it might lead to denial of a sex-relevant service if they do not. The Digital ID will not disclose sex in any situation where sex is not relevant. However where sex is relevant, such as accessing appropriate NHS care, the correct sex will be disclosed.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/07/2025 09:30

Also remember the four or so cabinet members plotting to undermine the ruling when it was first announced.

ErrolTheDragon · 04/07/2025 10:16

nauticant · 04/07/2025 08:31

I think we're stuck with the GRA because we don't have politicians who would be brave enough to scrap it but one amendment I'd like to see is to change it so that a GRC holder gets a I-have-a-special-gender status, which has nothing to do with sex and provides no right to change a birth certificate. This could be used in claims related to discrimination on the grounds of gender reassignment. I'd even be willing for an optional freeform data field to be available so holders can include their particular gender identity, as extraordinary as they wish it to be.

Well yes.
But - freedom from discrimination and harassment because of ‘gender reassignment’ is itself a very partial and exclusionary idea, and having a document reinforces that. Shouldn’t there simply be freedom from discrimination and harassment for everyone who doesn’t conform to gender roles and presentation?
The very existence of the GRC ‘others’ its holders and reinforces the shackles of ‘binary gender’.

nauticant · 04/07/2025 10:33

It's not about making a change that completely makes logical sense. It's about turning the GRC into an irrelevancy while throwing the odd bone to those who are committed to there being such a thing and feeling that it has to have some purpose/meaning.

TheOtherRaven · 04/07/2025 11:39

Yeah fuck that.

Starmer is teetering on the brink anyway, Labour have been an absolute shitshow this far. Women will just point this out to the electorate in large capital letters going 'look at this deceitful bunch who are trying to pull yet another fast one on you (like all the stuff not in the manifesto that you never would have voted for), and hate women as well as the disabled, children with SEND and old people'.

hholiday · 04/07/2025 11:49

TheOtherRaven · 04/07/2025 11:39

Yeah fuck that.

Starmer is teetering on the brink anyway, Labour have been an absolute shitshow this far. Women will just point this out to the electorate in large capital letters going 'look at this deceitful bunch who are trying to pull yet another fast one on you (like all the stuff not in the manifesto that you never would have voted for), and hate women as well as the disabled, children with SEND and old people'.

And Badenoch on the Tories will push them all the way. I know they aren’t in a strong place either but if the government do backslide on this, it will be challenged and done so publicly. And we know the public are not on the side of the gender extremists either. It’s a big risk for labour.

illinivich · 04/07/2025 12:00

Another opportunity for Starmer to make someone announce an unpopular decision. Wait too long, and then declare that hes going to stop it?

TheOtherRaven · 04/07/2025 12:07

Never waste your time listening to that man. Just watch what he doesn't do.

RedToothBrush · 04/07/2025 12:27

TheOtherRaven · 04/07/2025 11:39

Yeah fuck that.

Starmer is teetering on the brink anyway, Labour have been an absolute shitshow this far. Women will just point this out to the electorate in large capital letters going 'look at this deceitful bunch who are trying to pull yet another fast one on you (like all the stuff not in the manifesto that you never would have voted for), and hate women as well as the disabled, children with SEND and old people'.

In fairness to Labour that was always going to be the case. They were trying to please everyone to win votes and it was obvious that it wasn't going to be possible in practice.

Fwiw Reform will face a lot of similar issues...

The issue is the underlying state of things.

Shortshriftandlethal · 04/07/2025 12:27

nauticant · 04/07/2025 07:41

Maybe this is Starmer laying the ground for a future U-turn. As we've seen, he likes to do a big one every couple of months.

Starmer is not in charge. Increasingly backbenchers and activists are setting their own agendas and finding routes and pathways to implementing them. See the recent spate of private members bills, as just one xample.

Grammarnut · 04/07/2025 13:26

Myalternate · 03/07/2025 23:21

Will it really matter how many men apply for a GRC?

Transgender people with or without a bit of paperwork are required to follow the ruling of the SC aren’t they?

Possible that some Labour people are thinking of changing the EA2010 so that sex = certificated sex (i.e. birth cert or GRC). Would not put it past them.

TheOtherRaven · 04/07/2025 14:13

Grammarnut · 04/07/2025 13:26

Possible that some Labour people are thinking of changing the EA2010 so that sex = certificated sex (i.e. birth cert or GRC). Would not put it past them.

The trouble is, this would render the Equality Act null and void and pointless for three of the nine other characteristics: Labour would have to intentionally and publically set out to destroy the rights of homosexual people, women and women who are pregnant if they have trans identities.

I mean seriously. So men can force non consenting women to get undressed in front of them and submit to intimate handling for strip searches and medical procedures. And those MPs would have to do it in the full public eye, with FWS and JKR and us and many other people pointing this out loudly to the electorate in very small words. And the court of human rights might have something to say about that - probably more in fact than about men feeling that their access to undressed non consenting women is some kind of 'right'.

If the HoC were all collectively on enough glue to do this, the next parliament would undo it and ram the pendulum hard back the other way.

PrettyDamnCosmic · 04/07/2025 14:18

TheOtherRaven · 04/07/2025 14:13

The trouble is, this would render the Equality Act null and void and pointless for three of the nine other characteristics: Labour would have to intentionally and publically set out to destroy the rights of homosexual people, women and women who are pregnant if they have trans identities.

I mean seriously. So men can force non consenting women to get undressed in front of them and submit to intimate handling for strip searches and medical procedures. And those MPs would have to do it in the full public eye, with FWS and JKR and us and many other people pointing this out loudly to the electorate in very small words. And the court of human rights might have something to say about that - probably more in fact than about men feeling that their access to undressed non consenting women is some kind of 'right'.

If the HoC were all collectively on enough glue to do this, the next parliament would undo it and ram the pendulum hard back the other way.

Edited

You also need to have sex defined as biological sex before you can have the protected characteristic of gender reassignment.

Grammarnut · 04/07/2025 15:09

TheOtherRaven · 04/07/2025 14:13

The trouble is, this would render the Equality Act null and void and pointless for three of the nine other characteristics: Labour would have to intentionally and publically set out to destroy the rights of homosexual people, women and women who are pregnant if they have trans identities.

I mean seriously. So men can force non consenting women to get undressed in front of them and submit to intimate handling for strip searches and medical procedures. And those MPs would have to do it in the full public eye, with FWS and JKR and us and many other people pointing this out loudly to the electorate in very small words. And the court of human rights might have something to say about that - probably more in fact than about men feeling that their access to undressed non consenting women is some kind of 'right'.

If the HoC were all collectively on enough glue to do this, the next parliament would undo it and ram the pendulum hard back the other way.

Edited

Yes, I think the same - apparently impossible. But I doubt not some on the Labour benches think it's a good idea and are not at all happy at the SC clarification!
Also, most do not realise that making sex 'certificated' would remove maternity rights from TiF, it doesn't compute with them somehow; certainly did not make any headway until the SC pointed out that 'certificated sex' meant TiF would be treated as males for maternity purposes i.e. no rights. I think this is because they mostly focus on TiMs - women don't really exist for them even when they are women!

IwantToRetire · 04/07/2025 16:57

I think this is an obvious decision as anyone who has followed the threads about the W&EC meetings about the current EHRC and the future EHRC.

It isn't a suprise. But clearly really stupid.

The ruling about sex in the EA meaning biology has nothing whatsoever to do with policies about LGBTQI+ policies.

In fact it makes it even more evident that implementing that isn't something that requires anything other than enforcement.

And has nothing to do with the GRA / GRC as the Court (not the EHRC) has said GRCs should be disapplied because it effectively "discriminates" against the protected characteristic of sex.

And as was said at the W&E interrogation of Mary-Anne Stephonson, the issues of enoug, suitable toilets, is just as much about people with disabilities as people who "indentify" (who out number those with a GRC) as wanting to use the toilet facilities of the "gender" they say they idenitfy as.

So it should be a different job as it will be about enforcing the law as it now is.

Policies about those cramming themselves under the rainbow umbrella is a totally different set of skills.

Keep an eye of the W&E Committee.

TheOtherRaven · 04/07/2025 17:08

Keep an eye on the W&E Committee.

Oh God, I can't.

There's only so much batshit I can handle.

IwantToRetire · 04/07/2025 17:28

TheOtherRaven · 04/07/2025 17:08

Keep an eye on the W&E Committee.

Oh God, I can't.

There's only so much batshit I can handle.

I know! I sat up till really late one night listening to the meeting with Mary-Ann Stephenson.

I couldn't believe it. The level of questions and the absolute belief that trans people are the most discriminated group in the world, and on and on.

And in a way worse as it was meant to be a meeting shared with the Human Rights committee, and based on the questions asked it would seem the UK is totally compliant with Human Rights.

Even if the W&EC didn't directly create this job it just sounds like the tactics they take.

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 04/07/2025 17:37

I don’t understand the benefit of having a passport which says you are female when you are obviously to the untrained eye, a chap. I suppose in most of Europe they are used to it, having succumbed to similar bonkersness themselves, but in less enlightened places, might it not cause trouble at entry?

And I don’t think shouting ‘it’s Ma’am ‘ at a border guard is going to get you very far.

SionnachRuadh · 04/07/2025 18:00

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 04/07/2025 17:37

I don’t understand the benefit of having a passport which says you are female when you are obviously to the untrained eye, a chap. I suppose in most of Europe they are used to it, having succumbed to similar bonkersness themselves, but in less enlightened places, might it not cause trouble at entry?

And I don’t think shouting ‘it’s Ma’am ‘ at a border guard is going to get you very far.

Not all European countries though. If you went to Hungary with a passport saying F, but you looked like Alastair Sim in St Trinian's, you would probably get some funny looks.

JamieCannister · 04/07/2025 18:02

LeftieRightsHoarder · 03/07/2025 23:06

Bad news about Starmer is trying to extend the misbegotten GRA. But excellent reporting by Geraldine Scott in The Times, with strong, clear quotes. It’s good to see news media regaining the courage to speak openly.

I think it is possible that this could turn out to be good news. On the one hand the GRA won't be repealed unless it is on the agenda. On the other there is no way even labour 2025 are quite so stupid as to push through easier GRCs, and if they are then they really will fail in 2029.

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