San Fran bookstore stops selling Harry Potter due to JKR's 'anti-trans views' with women's fund being the 'last straw'

[frazzled1]

https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-pop-culture/san-francisco-bookstore-stops-selling-jk-rowling-titles-due-harry-pott-rcna215255?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_ma&taid=685dd109cf7ebf00013ec66f&utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

The Booksmith team said on Instagram that Rowling’s new "women's fund" was the last straw. 🙄

How are women supposed to look?

A female person and her body is detectable even when wearing trousers and having short hair in a masculine style if that is what you mean?

We seem to be reaching the iteration of Nonsense Land up the Faraway Tree where actual women may not “pass” as women.

No level of ridiculousness is beyond the reach of these altercations.

I await further revolutions with eager anticipation.

Agree. I think so many men underestimate the influence of middle-aged women in situations like this, probably because they don’t see us. I don’t need any more Harry Potter books, but I would boycott any store that took a hostile, antifeminist stance like this, and I imagine others would too. Middle aged and older women make up the bulk of the book-buying public.

Ooh, that awkward kind of misinformation that turns out to be true after all.

I suppose the problem we have is how are women to respond to obvious men in the women’s toilets or changing rooms in the moment? Report it to whom? Oh there seems to be no-one here now, where’s your evidence?

As we are frequently reminded, toilets are not policed, it relies on social norms/contract for people to obey the law.

Women are not physically able to stand up to a man in the toilets, or would be ill advised to do so because of the strength/size/power imbalance. We have no recourse if it is our word alone. Hence the photographic evidence option is more open to us.

I agree that it leaves room for mistakes to be made, but the alternatives are paid gatekeepers in every toilet, perhaps CCTV at the entrance, or just allowing men to continue to use our facilities no matter how it makes women feel, and despite it being against the law.

At the time of the offence, women have few practical options available to them.

I suppose I feel it is a bit akin to bike riders using helmet cameras, or drivers using dash-cams to record road incidents. It’s a bit intrusive, but it is evidence gathering for offences that otherwise cannot be proven.
I don’t like shaming via social media, but it could provide evidence to the service provider. And taking someone’s photo in public place isn’t illegal. Whether it should be is different question.

I don't think it's a good idea for women to take photos of people they think are men. If they actually are men and have possibly gone into the toilets for nefarious reasons don't you think it would be dangerous when they see you taking the photos? Somebody said up thread that she didn't mean trans women and it wasn't aimed at them, she meant men ( yes I know both are men but you know what I mean) so whatever way you look at it it's a really bad idea. Dangerous if it's an ill intentioned man and very upsetting if it's actually a woman. I really don't think she's thought it through because it doesn't affect her.

For a bit of balance

Magical new Harry Potter-inspired family attraction to open in Leeds city centre - Leeds Live https://share.google/bngExO0dLwd5owoXZ

I'd not heard of these before. There are also ones in York, Chester and Blackpool.

Harry Potter inspiring fun and growing businesses.

I made the comment about it being men not trans but when I say men I mean all men including trans identified men.

And you said trans not transwomen. Trans identified women are welcome in female spaces.

I am an ancient dyke. Back in the day when there was just one lesbian night upstairs in a pub in Manchester and then a disco at the university, it was brilliant, all women, great graffiti in the loo.
If I went to gay clubs or pubs you always had the trannies* who commandeered the women’s loos and called out Fishy or Haddock when you walked in.
Though they would lend you their lippy and compliment your clothes!
*what they called themselves by the way!
It’s very different now, so much entitlement and a desire to belittle and intimidate and show their tackle in a skimpy tight frock.

Ok sorry if I misunderstood or misquoted you, I should have checked. In my mind I meant trans women but I accept I might not have said that

Julie Bindel has done a good comment piece in the Telegraph

the link should be the archive version

http://archive.today/mtPml

I'm still trying to get my head around the idea that anyone would go into a bookshop looking for something that is vaguely wizardly and aimed at pubescent kids or a possibly well constructed crime thriller and, not finding anything to their liking, would then buy something else rather than try another shop.

I don't think that's their customer base. There are kids in the Haight but not many. Families generally live in other neighborhoods like the Richmond, the Sunset, or Noe Valley.Those neighborhoods have their own bookstores (plus online sellers).

I think this is mostly virtue signalling but also a business decision. Most of its customers will either support the decision or not care. Many of its customers are tourists who probably want to buy something about the Haight or its history, not Harry Potter books or Strike novels that they can easily get back home.

Meanwhile, The Booksmith gets a ton of free publicity.I can't believe how much free advertising they're getting.

Photographic evidence can come in very handy when it comes to repeat offenders. Many of these men have no such qualms about taking images of themselves in the women's toilets.

Two shops have recently opened in Liverpool. One is dedicated entirely to Harry Potter, and the other 'House of Spells' has a large Harry Potter section and the window display is always Potter oriented.

So no worries about a woman who is misidentified and feels humiliated or her kids getting bullied as their mum is a man?

I hear you that it might not be a safe thing to do because of men’s likely response.

I hate the idea of having to shut up and no recourse to justice because I am not strong enough up against a man losing his temper. It’s appeasement.

What do you think we should do about getting the law enforced?

A vanishingly unlikely scenario though bonus points for added pathos. The poor little children, what a shame, nasty terfs.

Not likely!

This idea that a woman in trousers or a butch lesbian is indistinguishable from a man is pure nonsense. I've got short hair and have never been mistaken for a man (in a women's facility) my whole life.I'm not interested in non conforming women being in women's spaces...it's the men that know they shouldn't be there that are the issue.

Men presenting as women tend not to present as a butch woman, anyway.....they go out of the way to present as 'feminine' signalled by clothes, hair, make-up....plus by being unusually tall, with big hands and feet etc.

I had a friend, sadly no longer here, who was continually called Sir in shops and restaurants. She wasn't trying to be butch or anything but she had a square figure and a manly face. She wore jeans and a loose shirt or top because she was self conscious about her figure. Her hair was neither short nor long. She would have looked absolutely ridiculous in a dress, definitely would have looked like a man dressed up as a woman. I really felt for her when people thought she was a man, it was embarrassing. This was many years ago, long before all this palaver but if she was alive today I'm damned sure she would be one of those who was mistaken for a man.

I think if JKR had said she was going to put herself in danger by photographing and posting online possible men but warned other women not to do, it then fine, she's taking that risk for herself. But don't tell other women to risk their safety while she sits at home.
I don't know what the answer is but if a man is behaving in a threatening or lewd way then get yourself out of there as safely and quickly as you can. If it's a trans woman just come in for a quiet pee and not bothering anyone and they seem approachable then if you feel inclined have a quiet word. But you'd need to be damned sure they actually are a man.

She would have looked absolutely ridiculous in a dress, definitely would have looked like a man dressed up as a woman

Listen to yourself.

That's unfortunate...but if it happens going forward it will be as a consequence of the over-reach of the trans movement. Once normality is resumed and people use the facilities provided for them, then it will become less of an issue.

It's the men that are of greater concern, anyway. And as said, they tend not to present in stereotypically masculine ways but are still obvious because of their male body, posture, demeanour etc. Most of us see men presenting as women on a frequent basis...and it is always obvious.

Excuse me?