Kemi Badenoch think BME communities shouldn't have their own neighbourhoods but be made to move to other areas

[IwantToRetire]

The UK should move to “active integration” along the lines of Denmark’s so-called “ghetto laws”, Kemi Badenoch has suggested.

Under Danish law, social housing areas with high levels of deprivation and a “non-Western” population above 50% are declared “parallel societies”.

Such a declaration can trigger requirements to reduce the amount of social housing in an area, including through evicting residents and demolishing or turning their homes into private housing, and restrictions on who can move there.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/society-policy-exchange-european-court-of-justice-conservative-b2775215.html

It's all a bit too late.

Demographic changes directly as a result of giving state assets in the form of housing to foreign nationals means that white 40somethings are set to be a minority here by the time they reach retirement.

This is a common misconception. Of course the tax payer foots the bill for social housing. Councils build social housing with taxes, and as the rent is way below market rate, there are opportunity costs that are also covered by the tax payer as these properties would fetch much more on the private market. Public housing is a public asset, so the yield from this asset matters. You may say that poor people have to be housed somewhere - I agree. But we have quite a bit of social housing in very expensive central London boroughs such as Westminster. Wouldn’t it make more sense to rent this out at market rate and use the money to fund spending on the NHS? The fact that social housing tenants can pass on their entitlement to a house to their children (it’s called ‘succession’) without paying a penny in inheritance tax and without means testing also troubles me, to be honest. That’s unearned privilege, not support for the weakest in society.

'Wouldn’t it make more sense to rent this out at market rate...'

Not for the very low paid people who work in and around Westminster, if they're pushed further and further out, it makes the commute to work longer and more expensive. As it is they're likely working long shifts during unsociable hours for minimum wages, anything that makes it tougher on them would be wrong.

Sure but the housing stock in state ownership in London is now majority occupied by foreign households and non working people so that hasn't worked out that way. 400 billion pounds worth.

I've reached the point of observational disinterest in this now because it's unchangeable, late stage open door global socialism funded by this tiny island.

The only answer we get to the question why is "to pay pensions", which is clearly wishful thinking and was that really a reason to give the country away? Because that's going to last 20 years at a push.

Boomer slop as the young people say.

The biggest social housing building happened after ww2. The building costs of those houses (the ones which weren't sold off under rtb) have been covered hundreds of times over by social rent. The rent is below market rent but it still covers the cost, it just doesn't provide profit.

Are you saying we should abolish social housing and charge market rent in those properties? If we do that, where do care workers and delivery drivers and single mothers fleeing DV live? Because if they all move somewhere with affordable private housing, there will be no HCAs bin men Amazon drivers or a whole swathe of other jobs which we need doing, across most of the south of this country and pockets elsewhere.

Good luck staffing an NHS hospital if no cleaners catering staff or ward nurses can afford to live within 100 miles of the place.

The destruction of social housing has been the worst policy disaster of the last fifty years, even including Brexit.

There is no social problem that we have now that has not been made worse by the lack of affordable, secure housing.

I think a lot of people are attracted because they prefer to be near other people who speak the same language, have similar religious practices, and similar lifestyles and values.

There is a bit of a paradox with neighbourhoods like this. They can have benefits in terms of mutual support, and also can help new people when they arrive. If those who have been there longer have integrated well they will help others do so.

I suspect the sweet spot is a small community, in proximity to other communities, and where not everyone arrives at the same time. But not enough people to mean there is little need to interact outside that community.

Ah, and Trevor Phillips has in fact commented on KBs idea in The Times.

I'll link but I don't have a share token, maybe someone else does?

Asking the Right Questions

The sad fact of the matter is that women and children will always suffer in a situation like this

There are women who can't speak English, who absolutely need GP appointments, but who wait for primary school age children to come home from school as they can't speak enough English to make an apt, or describe what's wrong

The child is privy to health matters the absolutely shouldn't know about and the mothers keep missing out because same day appointments are unavailable in the afternoons

The population is now people from 60 to 70 countries now. Very unusual and never been done before.

I think a lot of them expected to be living with English, Scots and Irish and Welsh people but they are living with people from 60 to 70 countries instead that all thought the same thing.

We are now communicating via a strange globish or translation apps.

Was this the plan?

the vast majority of social housing isn't built by councils, but by housing associations (sometimes referred to as registered providers) and they fund the developments largely by borrowing money from banks.

Yes, it's quite weird, historically, on this scale.

And with social housing, it's not so much about what people are choosing. It;s more who is going into that housing in a given area, so it may not be people's choices at all.

The same happens with low cost. My daughter, who is a student, is living in an area that was historically a village, now part of a city, but has some of the cheapest housing in the city. It is just full of people recently arrived because that is where they can afford to rent. It's not that they are trying to all live together.

And nothing to do with racism, it's the same reason poorer local people live there.

I don’t want to derail the thread (which was about ethnic enclaves and lack of integration) but just to answer this point briefly: the idea that most people who live in social housing are the ‘deserving poor’, those who work full time in low-paid jobs, is not accurate, as a very large number, I think over 40%, of social housing tenants are not in work. There is no reason why an unemployed and perhaps also unemployable person should live in a social housing flat in central London. Check out Tower Hamlets (which also has integration problems) as a case study.
Also, there seems to be a lack of understanding of what ‘opportunity costs’ are.

If you wanted to link key worker status and cheap housing, there are more targeted ways of doing this, such as building subsidised accommodation for nurses.

There are lot of different issues here. Immigrants with very little money who rely on the state for housing here and in Denmark are the ones where the state has power to decide where they live. Others it is different. My area of London has gone from 70% white to 30% white and we have had a lot of "white flight" ie white people leaving for white areas, both working class white people and middle class. Does that matter? No, if it is just colour of skin but in a sense I have moved without moving in that people around me are now in Starmer's words "strangers". If the strangers were fitting in and copying the way the host culture behaves then all across the UK the host culture might be happier about the highest number of newcomers we have ever had in our history.

It is a certainly an issue that needs to be tackled in many countries to help ensure people can live in peace and harmony together obeying original local laws and customs.

Where would they move people, to deprived white areas? I don’t see them getting seen to Kensington and Charles do you?

But the white people had to move out for the housing to be available. That’s the thing.

They weren’t held at gun point and told to leave.

The places they ‘fled’ to will probably be the places that these immigrants would be sent to if suggested proposals go ahead.