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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Confusing statement about treatment for intersex being a victory for trans community

134 replies

IwantToRetire · 14/06/2025 02:28

I feel a bit bad about making this a thread topic as it is clearly quite something to win the Women's Prize for fiction with your first novel.

And I am not meaning or wanting in any way to make this a personal attack.

But surely calling this trans treatment isn't right? Or have I got it wrong?

Van der Wouden revealed in her acceptance speech that she is intersex. “I was a girl until I turned 13, and then as I hit puberty all that was supposed to happen did not quite happen, or if it did happen it happened too much,” she said. “I won’t thrill you too much with the specifics but the long and the short of it is that hormonally I am intersex.”

“This little fact defined my life throughout my teens until I advocated for the healthcare that I needed. In the few precious moments here on stage I am receiving truly the greatest honour of my life as a woman, presenting to you as a woman and accepting this Women’s prize and that is because of every single trans person who’s fought for healthcare, who changed the system, the law, societal standards, themselves. I stand on their shoulders.”

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2025/jun/12/womens-prize-debut-yael-van-der-wouden-the-safekeep-rachel-clarke-the-story-of-a-heart

And this isn't the Guardian twisting her words, because other papers have posted snippets and this seems the fullest.

So my confusion is whether it is true that the treatment for a biological women with DSD has only become (more) available since medical intervention for men who want to transition has become more common.

If she wants to identify as part of the trans and queer community that's her right.

I am just hoping someone with the right medical knowledge can explain what she might be referring to.

Sorry if this is a really ignorant question.

Women’s prize for fiction goes to debut novelist Yael van der Wouden’s The Safekeep

Nonfiction award goes to Rachel Clarke’s ‘beautiful and compassionate’ The Story of a Heart, about a lifesaving transplant seen from all sides

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2025/jun/12/womens-prize-debut-yael-van-der-wouden-the-safekeep-rachel-clarke-the-story-of-a-heart

OP posts:

KkkIt · 15/06/2025 22:28

SionnachRuadh · 15/06/2025 11:57

I don't usually pay close attention to the Women's Prize for Fiction, but I wondered if some related issue had arisen before, and Wiki gives me this:

In 2019, Akwaeke Emezi's debut novel, Freshwater, was nominated – the first time a non-binary transgender author has been nominated for the prize. Women's prize judge Professor Kate Williams said that the panel did not know Emezi was non-binary when the book was chosen, but she said Emezi was happy to be nominated. Non-binary commentator Vic Parsons wrote that the nomination raised uncomfortable questions, asking: "would a non-binary author who was assigned male at birth have been longlisted? I highly doubt it."[45] After the nomination, it was announced that the Women's Prize Trust was working on new guidelines for transgender, non-binary, and genderfluid authors. The Women's Prize later asked for Emezi's "sex as defined by law" when submitting The Death of Vivek Oji for inclusion. Emezi chose to withdraw, and said that they would not submit their future novels for consideration, calling the requirement transphobic.[46] Joanna Prior, Chair of Trustees for the Women's Prize for Fiction, has stated that in the prize's terms and conditions, "the word 'woman' equates to a cis woman, a transgender woman, or anyone who is legally defined as a woman or of the female sex".[47]

Torrey Peters was long listed in 2021 for "Detransition, Baby".

Which I still find enraging.

If you haven't read it then it's well written and at times very funny book about trans-sexuals (the word used in the book) in New York.

It's surprisingly candid about trans life, everyone in it is awful and it should never have been on a women's prize nominations list.

SinnerBoy · 15/06/2025 22:37

proximalhumerous · 15/06/2025 20:52

Good point. So's mine. Although her novel-writing credentials are in doubt.

Show quote history

How would you know? Perhaps she identifies as a better speculative fiction writer than Freddie Flipflop?

marshmallowpuff · 15/06/2025 22:44

KkkIt · 15/06/2025 22:28

Torrey Peters was long listed in 2021 for "Detransition, Baby".

Which I still find enraging.

If you haven't read it then it's well written and at times very funny book about trans-sexuals (the word used in the book) in New York.

It's surprisingly candid about trans life, everyone in it is awful and it should never have been on a women's prize nominations list.

Show quote history

I recall well that when it was listed, on both Twitter and here lots of TWAW-supporters were crowing about it and saying how great this was, how progressive, how they were putting in orders to buy it and looking forward to reading it, because doing so would own the Terfs and nasty old bigots, or somesuch.

Funnily enough, once they had actually read it things went rather silent, and there wasn’t much going on any more about how great it was. Mainly because it’s not exactly a flattering portrayal of trans life, including scenes of rank misogyny like a trans woman wishing to be hit by a man, etc. etc. (And I don’t especially think it’s well written.) Anyway, it was quite the success for operation “let them speak”… 😆

cathyandclaire · 15/06/2025 23:24

myplace · 14/06/2025 20:06

The age she became aware of an issue suggests it’s not CAIS. If I remember correctly, they don’t investigate the absence of periods until 17 or so.

So something happened around 13 that raised concern. That’s not going to be female puberty beginning.

Dd was suspected of having CAIS at 13 because she had an inguinal hernia with a gonad within it. This is very unusual in girls and the specialists thought it was a testes so she was karyotyped. It was a very stressful time for us- but in the end the test came back XX and the gonad was an ovary.

Not saying this is the case here- just to say that there are potential other reasons for DSD investigation at an earlier stage.

proximalhumerous · 16/06/2025 12:05

SinnerBoy · 15/06/2025 22:37

How would you know? Perhaps she identifies as a better speculative fiction writer than Freddie Flipflop?

Show quote history

She probably does.

SapphireSeptember · 26/06/2025 09:28

proximalhumerous · 15/06/2025 21:02

JFC, now apparently autism can be a gender.🙄

I've seen that before! Arse biscuits. 😡

Carla786 · 11/12/2025 01:21

BundleBoogie · 14/06/2025 08:57

Yes, that is how I read based on the information we have. This is the key sentence in Yael’s speech

“I was a girl until I turned 13, and then as I hit puberty all that was supposed to happen did not quite happen, or if it did happen it happened too much,”

I wonder if the quality of the novel actually warrants this rare achievement of having a debut novel win the prize? It is certainly VERY convenient for the WPF on a number of levels.

Show quote history

Came to this thread as I read The Safekeep just now. Imo it's excellent, and I don't think it's wrong it won the prize so far, though I'd need to read the whole shortlist to judge properly.

Otoh I am very disappointed with Wouden for propping up TWAW narrative. Intersex is not the same as trans and should not be conflated.

Carla786 · 11/12/2025 01:39

Grammarnut · 14/06/2025 11:09

I was sent the article and have posted it on another thread (it's on the thread about 'intersex' whales) and it ends with the point that DSDs are nothing to do with gender dysphoria. I felt, on reading it, that the woman in question was confused as to what she was saying - she is speaking English as a second language, I presume, which may be why she talks of 'intersex'.
I suppose there is a link between TiMs' desire for genital cosmetic surgery and that could have helped with research into DSDs and any corrective surgery needed or desired. If that's her point that's fine - but if she is supporting trans ideology then she is on less certain grounds for they are not connected. But I think she is Dutch and the Netherlands are pretty well captured by the trans cult.

Edited

I read The Safekeep recently, which I thought was very good, and looked into Wouden. She wrote the novel in English, which was apparently her first & most fluent language since, while she grew up in Israel & Netherlands with one parent from each country, this was the language her parents used to communicate.
She lives in Netherlands now though, so I imagine that could affect how she speaks, unlike writing where you have time to pick the right word. The unclear way she talks could partly be a language issue- but that may not be the only reason.

Carla786 · 11/12/2025 02:11

SionnachRuadh · 14/06/2025 13:29

I'm wondering how often the Women's Prize goes to a debut novelist. I haven't read her book, and maybe it's really good, so perhaps I'm being cynical in wondering if an exciting identity might have helped.

I don't think I'm being at all cynical in wondering whether the Women's Prize would have got half as much coverage if the winner didn't have an exciting identity.

It is really good & I do think it deserved the prize, otoh I haven't read the rest of the shortlist.

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