Perfectly summarises the truth of 'non-binary' women and girls, in that last little paragraph.

[colourmystic]

That last bit - that such women / girls just feel, deep down and subconsciously, that there's something deeply vulnerable and undeserving in simply being female. I think that’s the essence of it.

Just out of curiosity

Did anyone else look at that last paragraph and just think "I have no idea what this person is trying to say?"

I do try to be as off-line as possible these days but I'm just curious to know how out of touch I am or if anyone else was baffled.

Though to be honest, this out of touch place is quite peaceful so I might just stay here.

It's almost like they see and acknowledge the hardships of being a woman, but instead of working to make women's lives better, they just decide to not be women anymore.

It doesn't fix anything because you will still be recognised as female, and it does absolutely nothing to fix the underlying issues.

Maybe. Or maybe it's like blind auditions? Or using an androgenous pen name?

I mean it can be the interface between us interacting with the world, rather than it being about oneself, maybe. Just a way to hide or obscure sex from other people.

My sister is non binary and I genuinely have no idea what it means.

She rejects gender stereotypes but so do I. My feeling of being female relates to my body, hormones and how I have been treated (eg sexual harassment, assumptions about my skills). These things apply equally to her.

I don't think there's anything additional beyond these body based factors that makes me female.

I understand trans people better as that's a form of body dysphoria but my sister seems happy enough in her skin.

Obviously I've not shared this with her as she'd call me a bigot!

Joyce talked about this in Trans. The non-binary identity in trans ideology is attractive because it provides an individualistic way to opt out of one's sex. But it actually serves to reinforce stereotypes.

"It is all <the non-binary identity> an immense pity, because there is a concrete sense in which deconstructing binaries could be liberatory. As Simone de Beauvoir explains in her classic The Second Sex, published in 1949, patriarchy centres Man and defines Woman only in relation to him. This value-laden binary is reinforced by many others, including subject/object, order/chaos, active/passive, strong/weak, reason/emotion and light/dark. Feminism is the task of centring Woman in her own life, and unpicking these associations. In the binary reason/emotion, for example, emotion is both taken to be inferior to reason because it is Woman’s domain, and taken to be Woman’s domain because it is inferior to reason. Feminists reject both propositions. A rounded life requires both, and neither need be the domain of one sex or the other. "

Ignore. I messed up the quote and took tired now to find it.

🙈

I see people who are non binary or 'trans' as very much accepting sex stereotypes other wise they wouldnt say that werent one of them

By saying you're not this or that gender, you're assuming that a gender has to act, look, talk, walk, think, work, play, dress, a particular way. I dont accept that and dont recognise that, hence very much not believing in a gender.

PJ Harvey, more recently. Boy George., David Bowie. Thank God they're all too mature and confident, or dead, to claim enbie status.

I don't think anyone 'feels female'. Like fish don't feel wet.

In a safe world we wouldn't need to know someone's sex. This is not that world.

I thought ‘feeling female’ was the basis for all trans-identifying men?

Sometimes this is true, yes.

I reckon a lot of enbies are also 'progressive' and working on some kind of utopian-facing basis.

"I see people who are non binary or 'trans' as very much accepting sex stereotypes other wise they wouldnt say that werent one of them"

It seems like a lot do, but not all. As a woman, I was very gender-non-conforming. As a transman, I don't care much about sex stereotypes. For some of us, it's really not about the appearances or the behaviour.

For most of the people calling themselves NB that I see, it seems to be about attention seeking.

Hence my statement. It's not possible to 'feel like' something one has never experienced. I can say I 'feel like' a dolphin, and it's similarly an exercise in imagination.

That will be unsurprising, though, as attention seekers will ipso facto be louder about it!

I was just thinking that! On the one hand I'd love to see a remake, on the other it would never be as good. Is there any anarchic silly comedy out there in a similar vein?

Ric would definitely be vegan (unless someone else was paying for dinner), polysexual (as in still a virgin and would shag anyone) & nonbinary.

Chrissie Hynde.....