‘Trans children more likely to be white and privileged’ says head

[hholiday]

In The Times today. https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/trans-children-white-privilege-katherine-birbalsingh-73d578v7q

There is no statistical evidence of the headteacher’s claim in the article (it’s anecdotal, based on the fact she teaches at an inner city London school and says it’s not really an issue there). And the Cass review and others have given other explanations for the transgender trend among young people, eg autism. But I thought it was really interesting it was being discussed at all - and so bluntly. It would be interesting if this view does get looked into a bit more, as I suspect if there’s one thing likely to bring the transgender movement skidding to a halt among kids, it would be the idea that it’s something for the rich and privileged.

"A privileged child with no significant disadvantages from race, disability or other great challenges in life, is introduced to concepts of equality and inclusion in a somewhat clumsy way, before they have the emotional maturity to think of other people's needs before their own. The immature child psyche perceives that unless they can claim a "difference" that requires special consideration, they are always going to be in the category of those who give that special consideration, and will never receive it, and they consider this "unfair" because they don't have the capacity to understand their privilege"

Exactly. They've been forced to accept that racism, ableism, classism and sexism are real. The only way to strike back as a white, socially privileged, able bodied individual is to make up some form of oppression.

I think on one hand you've got a point. Although I don't agree it's necessarily anything to do with parents having high paid jobs. I think it's more some teens feeling they're not getting the attention they feel they deserve from their parents combined with a dollop of old fashioned teen rebellion and social contagion.

Also, I agree, some parents do made it more about them and their identity as someone 'having a trans child' (famous examples being the Tennants, D and C Grant who actively look to 'cash in' on it under the guise of interviews about their lives/struggles, photo opportunities etc

However, I think there are far more children who id as trans who are vulnerable/on the spectrum as well as those who are suppressing or being coerced into suppressing the fact they're gay or lesbian.

There is also evidence that children who have been sexually abused are more likely to Id as trans. I find it particularly concerning that this isn't considered more about trans id children.

I don't know any m 2 f trans id children (imo m2f is more common in adults, often for completely reasons if you get my drift), but I've come across about 5 f2m/nb teen girls and I'd say most if not all fall into the on the spectrum cohort.

I was replying to this assertion by you :

You'll never see a Black or Asian parent on the telly saying that their little boy is a girl.

and pointing out that David Grant is black and publicly says ALL his children are trans/nb

This sort of intelligent nuanced response is why I love mumsnet. A trans identity can be arrived at as a response to many different situations.

So does Dwayne Wade. But my point with Grant is that he has a whire partner and co-parent. Those kids aren't being raised in a Black family.

The m2f ROGD cohort transition a little later in my experience - 16 to 21 ish instead of 12-15ish for the f2m group.

My, there are some unpleasant generalisations on this thread.

Data I collected (can't think to it as outing, sorry) showed a very high prevalence of bullying amongst trans-identified children. Bullying more commonly experienced by gender non-conforming (often gay) children, neurodivergent kids and kids from difficult backgrounds. Association with high levels of access to mental health services. But not all.

I think associating trans with a particular racial or class demographic is simplistic in the extreme. There isn't a one size fits all story. My own DC went (recently left) to a 'posh single-sex school' and trans was very rare. But gay was fine, and no associated bullying. Very sensible head with careful PHSE. Who knows, that may have been helpful. But I'm wary of simple stories.

I’m responding to the claims made in the article in the OP - I think that’s the focus of this thread - so what I wrote doesn’t exclude other reasons for children to adopt the trans identity.

I’m very aware of the conclusions of the Cass review but we’re talking here about a particular trend that the head teacher is writing about: the social background of (some) children who adopt this identity. And yes, it’s something I have observed socially and in particular (wealthy) parts of the UK: privilege and social status.

Considering 78.5% of teens are estimated as white British that fits what you would expect if ethnicity doesn't play a role.

I think while a there are clearly many vulnerable young people with significant issues - as laid out so clearly in Hannah Barnes’s excellent book - there is also a sizeable cohort of middle class young people affected by social contagion.

I live in a fairly affluent area. While my children were at the local high school, through them I knew one lad identifying as trans and 12 girls. The non binary number was much higher - whole friendship groups were becoming non binary. It’s particularly noticeable in young lesbians; only one calls herself a lesbian, the rest are transmen.

So from my anecdotal experience, both descriptions of “who is trans” can be true.

Anecdotally, at all my DC primary and secondary school, I’d say it’s 100% the wealthy and white DC who are trans and non-binary.

Because the other kids have actual problems.

You are just being goady now.

I'm really not. The other kids have real problems and areas of oppression. They don't have to make one up to feel special or whatever. There's a reason that there has been a rise in trans identified people as we accept that social privilege is a real thing. And guess who mostly feels that they are now part of this oppressed identity? Oh right the people deemed most privileged.

Surely its not rocket science? Anything is easier when your privileged. Met many gay people in the Middle East? Or lesbians in India?

Lots of words here that can be boiled down to social contagion.

Ah, I see so according to you her 'whiteness' is cancelling out his 'blackness'.

Other posters are correct. You're sounding like you have a racist axe to grind.

I can echo your experience of SS schools. Our daughter transferred from the local comp (which was great when her siblings went there) where NB/trans students were a plenty (and bullying, hence the move), to an all girls school. Guess what no trans/NB students at the girls school, but plenty of gender non-conforming girls who didn't feel the need to label themselves.

Please stop with the "self-indulgent posturing". I'm as gender critical as they get but as a mother of a child who identifies as trans and mixes with a large group of other teens who identify as trans they are all neurodiverse, have all struggled with friendships and fitting in and are very varied in terms of socio-economic background (they are all white but that would fit the demographic of where we live). They are not "posturing" - it's much more complex than that.

But that's not what the stats are showing, 80% estimated white British referrals compared to 78.5% estimate of teens being white British.

Can you explain what you mean by a "Black family"? Because on the face of it, your posts are coming across as a bit racist. What does racial purity have to do with trans-identification in children?

I've just googled Dwayne Wade (never heard of him) and he appears to be a black man married to a black woman, with a trans child. Which immediately disproves your assertion that this doesn't happen. Or don't they count because they're American?

You'll never see a Black or Asian parent on the telly saying that their little boy is a girl.

David Grant - doesn't count because his wife is white.
Dwayne Wade - doesn't count because he's American.

Another obvious example of someone non-white who was a trans child is Keira Bell. Why doesn't she count in your opinion?

Religion surely in London too - you don’t get many Muslim dads promoting trans ideology. Or baptists.

The child of a black parent and a White parent (capitalisation deliberate because I think white and Black is equally ridiculous) is generally considered to be Black, though that seems racist to me as it suggests that the default is white. So surely a mixed Black and White family is also black (or Black)?

I am gender critical but surely it is obvious that it is easier to live life as openly trans (or LGB) if you live in an area where you’re unlikely to be beaten up for it on the way to school. And parents won’t beat you or throw you out. Or if you aren’t also dealing with other stuff - disabled or from an ethnic minority. On that basis we’d expect more white British young people than in the general population to be openly trans.

Yes, 80% of trans-identifying children being white British is exactly what you'd expect in a population where about 80% of the total population is white British.

If, for example, 95% (or 65%) of trans-identifying children were white British, this would not be in line with the general population. This would indicate that white British children were more (or less) likely to identify as trans than those from other ethnic groups.