Allow Male Workers to perform mammograms and breast screening

[CrakdEgg]

OK, so the Society & College of Radiographers have their annual delegates conference, where members bring forward motions for the union to lobby on.
In the past they have passed motions to 'remove gendered language' from health communications for inclusivity - you know, 'pregnant people' and the like. They then lobby behind the scenes to the Government to follow these requests.

This year we have this motion -

Allow Male Workers to Perform Mammograms

Workforce shortages: there are 15 posts for mammographers on NHS jobs. In the UK.

But are we bothered? Do we not want males in this space, or does it not matter because we have male gynaecologists? Or will it dissuade women from attending?

I am interested to hear other people's opinions. My instincts say 'no way Jose', but I am interested in keeping males out of female spaces, so I accept my bias.

Thoughts?

Yes, I understand that males do mammograms in mainland Europe. I did hear that in the USA males did them (anyone can confirm) but that when faced with the choice, most patients chose the female member of staff to do them...so the males tended to not do much of the work.
Is it all across Europe where males do the mammograms? Or just a few countries?

No

I’d rather a woman. Having said that i had had boob checks by males and didn’t even occur to me things could get inappropriate all i was worried about at my health at the time. Getting intimate checks does put you in a very vulnerable position where your mind is elsewhere. One of the males gave my boob a quick wiggle. Was it to check the lump or was there an ulterior motive??

My main concern would be that the person is appropriately qualified. If there are current staff shortages and making this change would allow that to be addressed, and get more women screened, it seems like a good thing. Yes, there may be some challenges around chaperones for those who want them but those are not insurmountable. And it should be made clear that it will be a man when the appointment is made, so that there is a choice.

Why would a man want to do mammograms?

Yes, I have, only one. Some years ago. I honestly didn't find it any more intimate than any other procedure I have had done. I'm surprised that people do to be honest. I felt far more vulnerable and exposed with my legs in stirrups, with a student holding a speculum in my vagina for the doctor because it kept slipping out.

Would it get more women screened? 15 empty posts on NHS jobs. Where is this workforce shortage?

This ⬆️

It's just different - possibly because you're standing partially dressed whilst someone stands just behind you mostly out of sight, physically lifts them and moves them around into place, positions them to make sure the nipples are in the right place, guides you against the machine with a hand on your bare back, there's nobody else around and it's potentially uncomfortable/painful. For a lot of older women, they may not have had any male touch them for a considerable number of years, either.

I've had smears, delivered babies, had a TV scan and had a lump examined by a male, plus countless imaging tests, but none of them felt anywhere as vulnerable or intimate as my mammogram did despite a very lovely radiographer performing it.

And then there's the prospect of men who want to hold tits unsupervised and in an isolated location that breast screening clinics are often placed in.

I would not be happy. And not because I thought they were up to anything - you've precious little dignity getting this done and it being a man would make me feel worse

I wouldn’t want a male mammographer.

For the people saying they’d be OK with it, it would help if you say whether or not you’ve had a mammogram. There’s more scooping you in than you’d expect.

I wouldn't give a fuck who scanned me. It's my health.

Edited to say I have had a mammogram it was done by a female but my GP who sent me for it and had to check my lumps initially, was male. I couldn't have cared less.

If there are 15 empty posts, that suggests to me that there are gaps somewhere. They wouldn't be advertising otherwise. 🤷‍♀️

Not my experience. There was a reception area, then a changing room with doors both sides.. you walked in, stripped and put a cover on.

then the other door opened into the mammography room.

i’d have a male mammographer. Personally I found the midwives grabbing and manhandling my breasts, often without asking, and shoving them at a baby much worse.

At least the mammographer was respectful and gave me some privacy. Treated me like a human instead of an annoying baby support system.

Oh my word, 'a quick wiggle'? I don't know what to think, just like you. Concerning, or...something else? Who can tell?

Yes, I have.

It’s a no from me. There would need to be a female chaperone to protect both the patient and the radiographer which would create staffing problems itself.

The fact the facility I go to makes it very clear that it is a female only space makes an uncomfortable procedure much more bearable.

Agreed. This isn’t the point to argue.

It wouldn’t personally bother me. But that doesn’t mean I don’t think other woman shouldn’t be able to choose to have a woman, and I think enough would that it would make hiring a man maybe a bit pointless.

ETA - no, I haven’t had a mammogram. But I’ve had multiple internal vaginal examinations done by men. I don’t think I need to have had a mammogram to know that I would not care about having a man do it, because I know that I’m fine with a male dr touching me when/where necessary. But as I said, I don’t think my opinion is relevant to what other women should be ok with.

I understand that there will be women who don't want men doing it, much like there are women who won't want men doing their gynae procedures, but I can't see why this means there shouldn't be any male mammographers, because equally there will be lots of women who don't care. My boobs are just fairly unappealing sacks of fat, I don't care who squishes them and shoves them about for the sake of making sure they don't kill me.

Because he’s interested in women’s health?

you could ask why a lesbian might.

same reason

men become gynaecologists
men become plastic surgeons specialising in breast issues.
women become urology/prostate cancer specialists.

. 🙄

A hard no from me.
Where I go you walk into a room with dim lighting, strip off your top clothes straight onto a chair in front of the radiographer and then get your boobs manipulated into position before being crushed between the clamps. Just you and the radiographer in the room.
It really is painful and I bite my lip not to whimper.

It really is different to seeing a gynaecologist and besides in my experience there is normally a female nurse/chaperone lurking.
Will they have chaperones? Employing two people to do one person’s work? Apart from women’s feelings I think any male radiographer would be laying themselves open for complaints, especially for women having their first mammogram and not aware of what it involves, it’s inevitable some may think the man was unnecessarily rough or worse. I honestly say that in a no way suggesting women make unnecessary accusations or anything.

I also wouldn’t accept a male midwife.
Its entirely different to male gynaecologists.

I've had it done by a male and female radiographer. The number of male gynaes who have stuck their fingers in my vagina is higher than the number of men I've had consensual sex with. I hate it. When I had a breast ultrasound with a male radiographer I cried all the way through. I felt utterly violated and he just didn't get the anxiety that breast scans cause. I consent to these things because I've got a gynae disease and need help but I would pick a woman every time given the choice.

Women who can afford it will just pay to see a female doctor.

When I was 18 I got a job with the Civil Service. I had to go for a medical before I started. the medical took place in Manchester City Centre, in Piccadilly. You can see the building still from the tram stop at Piccadilly Gardens.
The doctor apologised from there not being an escort available but wanted to carry out the medical as I wouldn't be able to start the job until he’d sent the report in. All very plausible so far.
As part of the medical, he told me to undress from the waist up, removing all garments. He then proceeded to ‘examine’ me, including feeling my breasts. This seemed to take quite a while. I was absolutely mortified.
When I eventually started my new job, I spoke to one of my colleagues and said I had been surprised about what the doctor did at the medical. It was then I found out what the medical should have actually entailed, and that this ‘doctor’ was sexually assaulting me. It took me 30+ years to report this incident.

I will never allow a male medical person to examine my breasts - and I should never be put in a position whereby it’s up to me to ask for a female.

No, I really, really don't want a man trying to squish my breasts into position or approaching me from behind and leaning around me, which is what happened at my last mammography and felt a bit weird. And I'm a big stroppy older woman who's has never, fortunately, experienced sexual assault or violence. I can imagine it could be really traumatic for some women.