Allow Male Workers to perform mammograms and breast screening

[CrakdEgg]

OK, so the Society & College of Radiographers have their annual delegates conference, where members bring forward motions for the union to lobby on.
In the past they have passed motions to 'remove gendered language' from health communications for inclusivity - you know, 'pregnant people' and the like. They then lobby behind the scenes to the Government to follow these requests.

This year we have this motion -

Allow Male Workers to Perform Mammograms

Workforce shortages: there are 15 posts for mammographers on NHS jobs. In the UK.

But are we bothered? Do we not want males in this space, or does it not matter because we have male gynaecologists? Or will it dissuade women from attending?

I am interested to hear other people's opinions. My instincts say 'no way Jose', but I am interested in keeping males out of female spaces, so I accept my bias.

Thoughts?

No from me ... way too intimate... last woman who did my mammogram was a delight and I enjoyed dealing with her when I was going through something so painful and so tough

And yes, I am another SA survivor - two attempted rapes, one almost succeeded...

70% of radiographers in the UK are female.

Would you be comfortable with a male medical professional carrying out intimate exams on your partner/daughter/mother/sister if you knew they were uncomfortable?

Unfortunately, not all medical professionals are as trustworthy as you believe they are. Many male doctors, nurses and paramedics have been struck off or prosecuted for abusing female patients.

Many, many women have suffered abuse like this but have always suffered in silence. It takes a lot of courage to speak up against the NHS so many don't - or can't as they don't know where to start.

Men don't carry the in-built shame that many women carry. There seems to be a general "way-hey" attitude that males have to their being literally manhandled by young female professionals. I say young as the attitude often changes into one of "naughty schoolboy" when an older woman performs an intimate exam on them.

Yet men never feel shame when examined. Embarrassment, maybe. Shame is extremely rare for men.

Not a good idea for mammograms because

1. There is a lot of breast manipulation - it’s not like other scans.

2. they are tying to encourage attendance

Your lack of understanding @YourAzureEagle is really annoying.

It's not necessarily about trust, although we have good reason not to trust male medics - just look up how many sexually assault us - but it's about boundaries and dignity and comfort.

Don't equate a medical emergency with routine scans.

Do listen to women.

And do try not to argue.

@YourAzureEagle- male privilege is so many things you don’t even think about. Not having to consider your outfit when you go out- too revealing, too ‘dowdy’ too ‘asking for it’ not having to worry that saying no thanks to someone of the opposite sex has ‘fucking dyke’ or some other delightful comment because no, you juts don’t want a drink. Not being told to ‘smile love, you’ll look better’ not having to think about where you’re going, how you are ( perceived ) to be asking, being seen as too confident, too negative, complaining about something reasonable makes you a ‘Karen’- I and ever other women could go on and on. Multitude of micro events you will never, ever have to consider. That’s male privelage.

I would refuse a male performing a mammogram.
The arguement we have male gynaecologists etc doesn't work, it's NOT the same.

I would find this a very strange career path for male radiographers to specialise in as well.

Whilst I haven't personally had one, I have worked on the design of 2 mammography machines, having worked in the design of x-ray equipment - and men can, and indeed do, have mammograms if there is suspicion of breast cancer, that men can, and do get.

To start you off - right from the start, male and female babies are spoken to in different ways, and traits and behaviours which are stereotypical are noted, celebrated and therefore reinforced. Statements made about babies dressed in blue emphasis things like intelligence, with babies dressed in pink they are more like being sweet. At every point in life, and in many situations, men and women are subject to different attitudes and expectations. In general these make life easier for men and harder for women. Sometimes these beliefs and expectations disadvantage men but in general men are treated in ways that given them advantages just by dint of being male, not because they have earned it. You see the same mechanism in relation to race. attractiveness (pretty privilege) or body size. Many men are unaware of, or disbelieving of their privilege. But it is real.

And if women aren’t comfortable with a man grabbing their breast should they just not attend their mammogram appointment?

Seems rather a counterproductive strategy.

Mostly because they care about women’s health. I’ve had 2 male gynaecologists. The first did all my ivf, all sorts or procedures including gynae surgery. He was instrumental in developing / perfecting ivf techniques in his youth and very dedicated. The second performed a hysterectomy on me. When I asked him why gynaecology he said that not enough people worked in the area and he wanted to work on women’s health. The people performing the internal scans (of which there were many) during the egg growing period were both male and female. This was abroad. They had to be quite forceful to see and measure the egg sacks.

Well of course they do but I don’t know many men who feel exposed, embarrassed, awkward and uncomfortable without their top on and their breast tissue hanging out.

I was always someone who didn't really care of the sex of whichever medical professional I saw. This all changed when I had a male consultant at the breast clinic ask me horribly inappropriate questions about my breasts. Also, his examination technique was more akin to groping and fondling rather than checking for lumps. (And believe me, I know exactly how a breast exam should be undertaken).

This experience was enough to change my mind and make me realise that with some things, women should only be treated by other women.

I actually think many on this thread remind of those women who have no issue with toilets (and other single-sex spaces) being used by TW because they've never had any issue with them. And with that, everyone else should just shut up and put up with being seen by a male radiographer because they've never had an issue being treated by a one. Ditto those performing mammograms. Although that said, I don't think I've ever ever come across a male performing these anyway. Am sure this is a procedure only performed by women. And given how much manipulation is often done during a mammogram, I'd not feel comfortable with a man touching me anyway. Thankfully, with a double mastectomy, my days of mammograms are over. Praise be! Even so, that doesn't mean I don't care about the feelings of those who are still having them.

I'm a rape survivor who's had breast cancer (twice, in my 20s and 30s). I actually didn't know men couldn't do this job. I genuinely don't understand feeling it's more intimate than gynae things - I've had plenty of male gynae health professionals (doctors, nurses, midwife) at that end and felt much less embarrassed with the ones dealing with my boobs (when I had them) - the surgeon who performed my mastectomy, and a doctor who performed a check when I had a suspicious lump at another time, were both male. I declined a chaperone on the first occasion I was asked but they didn't ask me the second time so the chaperone was there by default.

But I would never negate someone else's feelings. I guess if it was enough of an issue for enough women then having men in the role could cause more problems than it solved from a resource pov but there'd be no complaint from me, personally. I wonder if it's partly an age thing, considering the majority of women having mammograms are likely to be older (I realise I'm a sample of one here, would be interested in knowing how many of the others on this thread who don't care either way are also younger)...?

Translation from male to female:
"Suck it up bitches, you ungrateful hags. If you can't hack it you don't deserve to live. Being raped or abused by a man is no excuse. Reframe your trauma and all hail the sainted medical professional who can do no wrong."

That post really is one of the worst I've seen on MN in a while. Imagine being that tone deaf and lacking in empathy...

Ever wonder what the world would be like if it was designed by women with women in mind?

I think it'd be very different for some mysterious reason.

If you are not comfortable working with the human body, and all its bits, then you shouldn't work in medicine, likewise as patients we should trust medical professionals, radiographers included, whether male or female regardless of which bit they are inspecting.

These two situations aren't the least bit comparable.

A career is a choice. The NHS has a duty to treat everyone to the best of its ability, to ensure that everyone has access to healthcare.

If a significant number of women do not want to be treated by a man, they shouldnt be forced into it, be at a disadvantage having to wait for a woman, or decide not to have the screening at all.

There are far more women trained as radiographers than men, and that patern has being going on for years. There really shouldnt be a shortage of women available.

It wouldn't bother me, not least because I doubt anyone could be worse than the female consultant who was checking my breasts in the breast clinic.

I found a mammogram mildly uncomfortable at worst, whereas a breast biopsy with a needle did make me cry.

Every smear I've had has been with a female nurse. But the gynae consultant up the hospital is a man, though all the other staff are women.

People shoukd have the choice for any sort of intimate exam. I read somewhere men aren't usually bothered about women doing prostate exams, because they're used to women in service roles. And women usually have smaller fingers

(Must remember to book different date for next mammogram, now I'm back from being away.)

No, too much handling and manoeuvring of breasts at close close quarters. I don't much care if a man is doing personal examinations at the other end. Mammograms feel much more intimate. Maybe because breasts are so sexualised who knows, but no.

Presumably you’re lucky enough not to have frequented the infertility boards. It’s usually called that there.

They weren’t smears, it was 5 years of unsuccessful IVF.

And endometriosis actually — I’ve only ever had male consultants while that was being diagnosed, up to the point of it being surgically excised, and they were wonderful.

"read somewhere men aren't usually bothered about women doing prostate exams, because they're used to women in service roles. And women usually have smaller fingers"

I read on this very thread that many women are not bothered by males doing mammograms.

Doesn't mean we get to ignore the posters that don't feel that way.

I’ve had breast cancer. General scanning, fine. Mammograms, no. There’s so much grabbing and manipulation of the breast tissue to get the optimum amount into the machine that I would not be comfortable with it. Also the radiographer sometimes needs to sort of lean over you to get you in the correct position.

To my mind there is professional classism bound in with this. There is a general acceptance of male cartographers or obstetricians and I think many women would feel awkward demanding a male clinician when we know they are highly skilled and gender parity in medical roles has been around some time.

however when it comes to AHPs then it seems more legitimate to demand female staff because presumably people view male radiogrphers as somehow a little less professional or more accessible in numbers so female staff can be requestrd.

I think if you are for single sex AHPs you should argue for single sex clinicians..