NHS to test all 'transgender' children for autism / same-sex attraction

[Pluvia]

This is the archive link to the Telegraph article so that everyone can read it:

http://archive.today/CnELA

As a result of the Cass Review, all children presenting as transgender will be assessed for autism and same-sex attraction. Excellent news all round. Looks like they're going to stop sterilising autistic children and training away the gay.

So proud to be a terf of terf island. We changed this. We saved some kids, at least, a lifetime of medication and isolation.

I think the title of this thread does not accurately represent the article.. which only mentions same sex attraction in passing.

I also think that this shift is helpful and reflective of a shift in approach to neurodiversity focusing not on how people with neurodiversity should learn to adapt to our neuro typical society but on how our neurotypical society can adapt to their neurodiversity and also to consider what impact medication has and how best to use it strategically, where the benefits outweigh the potential harms (which exist for all medications!!) rather than seeing all presentations of neurodiversity as something that needs to be chemically altered.

I think what this holistic assessment signifies is a shift away from assuming that any child who uses the word 'trans' is automatically on a puberty blocker followed by cross sex hormones and surgery pathway.

It instead starts with an open mind, looks at the child and child's situation holistically, considers possible co morbidities and treatments, allows for the possibility that 'no treatment' is the best option (see the recent detail for enquiry for the adult services, here: https://www.england.nhs.uk/long-read/key-lines-of-enquiry-review-of-the-nhs-adult-gender-dysphoria-clinics-in-england/)

If parents present a child trying to 'trans away the gay', it seems far more likely this will be picked up on and challenged.

If a child is in need of mental health support, trauma care, etc, this should be picked up on (the state of that support is another subject entirely, of course, but we have to start somewhere).

And if they aren't autistic, what?

This is a good example of identity politics rotting people's brains IMO. It's the same as a discussion of a bad policy about something like benefits, where people say things like, "Oh, this is bad because it will affect black women poorly." No, it's bad because it's a bad policy that will affect anyone who it pertains to badly.

For some reason - by which I mean, because they have been trained to only think through that lens - a lot of people now only seem to be able to look at problems in so far as they relate to special groups.

There are no children who are really born in the wrong body. If kids are experiencing some kinds of body issues or say they are, there is something else wrong, which may need to be explored, or in other cases it may be social contagion or grooming, or evidence of BPD or trauma, whatever. In all cases it should be identified and addressed appropriately. Not just for those who happen to belong special groups.

In all cases it should be identified and addressed appropriately.

I assume this is the whole point of the holistic assessments.

No, nobody will bypass the assessment waiting lists. If a trans young person needs a full autism assessment, once screened, my understanding from what I have been told of plans, working in this field, is that they would be placed on the waiting list for assessment along with all the other children and young people.

Not just for those who happen to belong special groups.

That really, really isn't what is being suggested.

An assessment might for instance consider whether a child's feelings about gender were influenced by e.g. dependence on rules or a feeling that they didn't fit easily into the society of their peers, and whether that could indicate autism.

it's no different to considering many causes for breathing difficulties.

Yes this is my point. Why focus on autism. The default should be, something else is wrong.

Maybe autism, or concrete thinking that doesn't rise to the level of autism.

I know other kids with other issues. Abusive parents. Abusive mother. BPD. Psychosis. One who might be a sociopath. Plus, as they get older, I suppose you will get boys with sexual fetish problems.

There might be some where it is just social fads in the school or friend group. Or the parents pushing it.

The default should be there is something else wrong.

I wouldn't make that assumption. They are starting from the idea that transgender is a real diagnosis, IMO. So are looking for specific things that might mean it's something else. And they are primed to pay attention to the socially important ones.

The default should be there is something else wrong.

Yes it should be. The issue is removing activist clinicians who don’t believe this to be true and placing children in the care of clinicians who appreciate this to be the case. This is the problem, because unless there are wholesale changes to the staffing and modelling of any service provision to gender distressed children, it will just be more of the same: failure to actually help these children in the long run.

If they are not neurodiverse... then what?

Then, the clinician should assess the options available. There are many examples in medicine where we do things because we can, not because we should... where the evidence does not support the treatment path but it is done anyway... especially in psychiatry... there are also many examples where treatments are given without fully understanding the consequences which are reviewed and advice changed.. antibiotics for a throat infection for example... or PPIs for infant reflux.. or the more extreme example of lobotomies. Frequently, the evidence is biased, poor quality, contradictory or insufficient and yet widely practiced. In some cases the harms are well known but ignored.. the use of mercury in fillings, for example.

Sometimes the answer to 'then what?' .. is that we do nothing.. which in practice is watchful waiting.

First, do no harm is simplistic... but nevertheless important. Cracking open someone's chest is extremely harmful but can result in physicians being able to restart someone's heart.

Hurrah, Dr David Bell, you're being heard at last...long been an advocate of his.
This is worth watching.

They’re not just looking for autism @TempestTost. That was only one of the things the linked article mentioned.

They’ll be screened for neurodevelopmental conditions such as autism and ADHD under new guidance because it’s been noted that these conditions occur at high prevelence in trans identifying young people.

“Medics will also evaluate each child’s mental health,
their relationship with their family and their sexual development, including whether they are experiencing same-sex attraction.”

“The specification noted that ‘there is evidence of an increased frequency of family parental physical and/or mental ill health and other family stressors in this group”.

“The NHS guidance described a previous ‘reluctance to explore or address’ mental health conditions because gender dysphoria was not classified as one, but said that “identifying and treating” any mental illness should be an “integrated part” of their care.”

A “holistic” approach is to be used.

"it's no different to considering many causes for breathing difficulties"
@Merrymouse Yes!

He was brilliant on this. One of those who were clear on the damage of the ‘trans kid’ idea.

Agree, @EasternStandard

I think so too. A symptom of terrible legislation that crept through to children. And adults pushing their agenda onto children too.

I do wonder how successful the new gender clinics have been in keeping the adult activist groups at a distance from all this? Hannah Barnes "Time to Think" showcased the toxic impact Gendered Intelligence and Mermaids had on both clinicians and the actual treatment offered to children.

Hopefully the multi disciplinary, open scrutiny that these services are operating under will be a useful barrier to their influence? Although yesterday's batshit BMA pronouncement about the SC ruling suggests there may be a significant issue with hard of thinking medics.

Here is another excellent interview with Dr David Bell this time by Stephen Nolan who skewered all the trans nonsense in his BBC podcasts nearly four years ago.
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p09yk7dh

Agreed! They’re just children. I don’t like this. Test for Autism, absolutely.

I remember this. It’s excellent.

No, because the ongoing social murder campaign against them instigated by the previous government and accelerated by the current one has already made sure they'll be waiting a long, long time to get there.

No but autistic people usually only see things one way. So let's say they are gay and because everyone else is male and female they don't feel right being a man dating a man due to it not been considered the norm? So if they change to female and date a man it's considered the norm so maybe they feel they are in the wrong gender? No idea but effectively it's research to see if most people who are trans are autistic and if so are they gay/bi/ lesbian and how that looks to them.

I do wonder how successful the new gender clinics have been in keeping the adult activist groups at a distance from all this?

They haven’t

"Social murder"?
These poor children being targeted by adult activists gaslighting them that watchful waiting and holding off on experimental drugs and surgery is "social murder".

The only people who hopefully will be held to account in the courts are the medics and activists who ignored society's responsibility to safeguard children because they're young. Unable to give informed consent to "treatment" that includes bodily mutilation and causing harm to their future physical and mental health.

That's one of the most irresponsible claims I've heard about these vulnerable children in a long time.

I agree @MrsOvertonsWindow and reported the use of social murder but apparently it’s okay to use this kind of language on MN 🤷‍♀️