What practical difference do you think the SC ruling will make?

[GCornotGCthatisthequestion]

What do you think will change following the SC ruling on the definition of woman in the equality act?

I think in practical terms they were previously assuming that GRC holders had to be allowed in, and that everyone else could sneak in on their coat-tails on the fact that nobody was going to ask if they had a GRC or not.

this is exactly it.

Thank you so much, I'll be reading this this evening.

I think one of the best things about the ruling will be the end of gaslighting. Have mixed sex spaces if you want, but don't gaslight me by telling me it's a women's group when there are men there.

And re the classic ‘gotcha’ of how will people know if a biological male uses a women’s loo, who’s going to stand on the door and do a genitalia check etc
probably no-one.
same as when people without a blue badge are expected not to park in a disabled space, people who earn enough are expected not to claim benefits, people in a shop are expected not to take things without paying.
The male in the loo is deliberately and knowingly breaking the law. That wasn’t clear before, but it is now.

This is actually really positive. Men claiming to be women will never be able to enter female only provision again. At best, they can hope for mixed sex, and that also paves the way for third spaces/mixed sex in addition to single sex provision. Because any refusal to accept this is the new normal gives only the option to stick to the male single sex option if third spaces aren’t what they want.

This is a link to an archive version of the times article by Reindorf on what the judgement means:

https://archive.ph/1j6v5

and this section helps clarify this further:

“Single-sex arrangements are not mandatory in competitive sports or services open to the public, such as gym changing rooms or refuges for victims of domestic violence. However, it is likely to be discrimination against women not to provide them where they are appropriate, and public authorities must pay particular attention to making adequate provision for women under the public sector equality duty.”

So my reading of all of this is:

Defiant orgs who want to continue to provide ‘male inclusive’ provisions for women can choose to do so, under the correct banner of mixed sex. However, if a refusal to also provide female only (if necessary - and toilets/changing rooms I’d argue are necessary to be single sex for privacy & dignity & safety) leaves women at a disadvantage, they’re in breach of the law & are open to discrimination claims from women.

I am not a lawyer so happy to be corrected.

I think this is really key, i.e. if as a service provider, whether of a toilet or a rape crisis centre etc, you say that service is for women, you must not permit males to use it. This is where additional cases like the Survivors Network case can and likely will be made. And that case may well now be a slam dunk for Sarah Surviving because the ruling is "merely" clarifying what the law has always been, so that a sensible judge will rule that they should have applied it that way all along.

Where has Sarah’s case got to? I have followed it a bit

I think it was planned for September, but maybe it's been put back a bit, so maybe November? Not sure

I think the protesters are just not very bright.

Gender pay gap reports may be interesting from now on

I think you are correct, and that is what the article says. It goes to show the importance of language. Local paper headline welcoming the opening of a 'new mixed-sex shelter for people fleeing DV and rape' would always have raised eyebrows amongst all but the most committed Butlerites. And a gym announcing 'our up-to-date and inclusive facilities incorporating mixed-sex toilets, showers and changing rooms throughout' would be avoided in droves.

I think there will be mounting pressure from within the labour party to rewrite/update the equalities act.

In the short term a few organisations might feel more confident to have single sex provisions and a few people might have more confidence to say what they believe.

But others will cary on as before, as like many things , most people haven't got the energy to go to court and enforce the law.

Exactly. The notion of mixed sex isn’t a draw for women when they’ve most likely had experience of sharing space with men. That’s what’s mind blowing in all of this. Men never got a grip on the ones who creep women out, who are the reason single sex provision is necessary, who don’t respect boundaries & who keep their hands & eyes to themselves. It’s up to men to sort their shit out, not women.

Look at the young female entrepreneur who is working on a female only gym, who was monstered by the genderists because she determined the space should be female only with no larping men allowed. She has her entire business model based on a known need, because women in gyms know & have experienced enough of inappropriate male behaviour to want to just exercise without having to deal with that. It’s that simple & straightforward - women want to do things & have experiences without having to deal with inappropriate men making that feel unsafe. And men larping as women are included in that - it’s unnerving to have a man in a female space where women undress, and the fact he has no respect for the need for privacy & dignity makes his presence inappropriate too. That’s why those men who claim to be women should be excluded. They should never have been there at all.

By that point hopefully labour are out.

Unfortunately the way things are looking reform might make serious gains.

Personally speaking, the practical difference of the ruling will mean I can slow down on the Tunnocks and go back to eating a wide range of wrapped chocolate biscuit snacks

Regarding changing signs on doors, I have a simple one for them. Put your stupid "all genders"/half-a-beskirted- person" signs on the mens toilets (formerly known as " toilets with urinals"), and a straightforward "Women" sign on the, uh, women's. No rebuilding required!

bugger, still not allowed to do photos