NEU defy the Supreme court

[ArabellaScott]

Womens conference to welcome males who identify as women.

https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/neu-says-its-national-womens-conference-will-welcome-trans-women

Be interesting to see.what the EHRC make of that.

To exclude one sex you have to invoke the SSEs

In fact the SSE as currently written is no longer relevant as it was specifically about saying men in a GRC in this instance (SSE) they had not changed sex.

In the future, much as the EHRC did when it described how to advertised a job that was only for one sex, you had to declair it (and why)

The SSE is now irrelevant as it was Labour admitting they had wanted to make a man with a GRC a "legal woman" and the SSE was for the occassions he wasn't.

So now that the word sex means biological sex, it is more about on what basis under EA you can "positively" advertise to only one sex.

There was a thread on this as the EHRC only recently updated it.

Though I think many of us thought it was clear as mud, and think now that I remember it I said what I said at the time. Why cant you just have a simple foot note saying this means only X or Y sex!

Oh dear. Any lawyer will tell them in ten seconds what we've just laid out here.

I do look forward to hearing them spin that.

I think you’re misunderstanding. The ruling said they can, not they must.

Well, we shall see. Plenty of people very willing to test this in court, I expect.

And the ruling is clear. Single sex spaces are now able to exclude trans women on the basis of “woman”, in the EA2010, meaning a biological woman. However. Including trans women does not breach the EA, the case was originally brought as someone had asserted that excluding trans women was a breach of the EA. There is nothing in the ruling that mandates the exclusion. It just says that if you so choose, you can exclude.

You do not have to offer single sex services but if you do they must be single sex. You can not claim single sex exemption but allow in some of the excluded sex without it being discrimination against the rest of that sex.

Filia is a women's conference
that allows men in the daytime
but not the evening

therefore males can be in the door before 7pm
but not after

stop trying to complicate what is blindingly obvious
(and no, transwomen do not pass)

This was my understanding too. Have also read, am also not a lawyer, and guidance is likely to emerge in the next couple of weeks.

The judgement seemed to say that when something is labelled and provided as for women - separate to a mixed sex provision - then there was a proportionate and justified reason for doing this, or it would have been a mixed sex provision, and that means that no men count as women to access this.

We have all been told for a long time by the political lobby that women must be ready to justify each individual thing to the last decimal place every time to create good enough reason to have anything for women only (and pretty much no reason is good enough). I don't think the judgement leaves that standing.

The judgement mentions that it is talking about definition of 'women' only in relation to the act and not wider social definitions and use, however yes, I wonder if they would need to make it clear now that this is a conference welcoming women, transwomen and whatever other categories of identity they would like, and that blanket word 'woman' no longer does the job legally.

But it wont be advertised using the SSE.

They are relying on people acting in good faith.

It will be interesting if any conference, as opposed to a support service, is able to claim it would qualify as having to be single sex.

A single sex space isn't a single sex space if it contains anyone of the opposite sex.

There is no provision on the EA2010 to single gender spaces.

I have read the judgement as Arabella has. If you provide segregated spaces they have to be segregated by sex.

The judgement mentions that it is talking about definition of 'women' only in relation to the act and not wider social definitions and use, however yes, I wonder if they would need to make it clear now that this is a conference welcoming women, transwomen and whatever other categories of identity they would like, and that blanket word 'woman' no longer does the job legally.

And I'm wondering, given the above, that organisations can still use the term Woman as an 'inclusive' term because they're not claiming (or required) to offer single sex spaces under SSE

The EA2010 allows groups and associations to restrict members based on a protected characteristic. So you can have a lesbian only bar or a Christian only meet up group.

There is no protected characteristic of gender identity, so I'm not sure how they would be able to hold a group for 'those whose gender identity is that of a woman.'

Such a group would exclude some people on the basis of their sex, but allow others of that sex in. It would also include some people on the basis of gender reasignment but not allow others.

But I am not a lawyer and I'm sure things will become clearer and more concrete soon.

Exactly. Also, why are TiMs allowed in and not other men? Are TiFs allowed to join? Typical NEU, which alas I am a member of, in thinking this will be okay without actually thinking about it. They could see themselves hauled through the courts in sex discrimination cases by excluded men who are not Trans, and by TiFs, who are biological women, but excluded.

Clear thought doesn't seem to be something the NEU does.

This is it.
You can't have a 'women & transwomen only' event because the exemption allowed is for sex not gender.

https://events.neu.org.uk/event?region=EM&id=REGCOWMEM300525#MEMBER.EVENT.INTRO

It doesn't HAVE to be single sex.
But it's not ALLOWED to be single gender.
So if it wants to be for 'women' it logically has to be for biological women.

PS reading recent responses I am saying the same thing as lots of others. It's helpful though to experiment with the clearest most concise way of saying it at this point, I think.

'NEU Women across the East Midlands are invited to attend our annual Women’s Conference in sunny Skegness! Over the weekend, they’ll be an array of guest speakers and workshops looking at issues facing women in education and how together, we can challenge them and change the system.

...
We appreciate that working in education, being a mum, a friend, a partner, a carer and everything else in between can make it difficult to find time for yourself. We’re therefore reducing any barriers to women attending by offering the following:

• Free accommodation for two nights
• Free meals throughout
• You can bring a partner, grandparent, etc who can stay in the room with you free of charge. Their breakfast will be included but there will be an additional cost for their evening meal
• You can bring children to stay with you free of charge. We will also provide meals for them free of charge
• Your children can spend the day in Skegness with your partner, grandparent, etc or you can use the free creche onsite (suitable for children aged 0-15 years)'

Single sex spaces must be single sex. If it says 'women only' then that is biological women and excludes trans women (who are men).

I guess what I'm trying to express, although rather clumsily, is that events can be advertised as 'Womens' but not actually be single sex as with the Filia Women's conference that actually allows men during the day.
I would assume that anything Women's would be single sex but it's clearly not the case.
So if the Women's conference can include men, a women's running group, or a women's disco could also include men.
Will we have to be contacting Women's events to see if they actually mean single sex- as the SC has stated that 'Woman' wrt to the EA is a biological woman, but not in wider social terms.

Single gender is not the same as single sex. It's sex which is biological. Things can be mixed sex and you could call that mixed gender if you like, but if you say its for women only then that is biological women only and it is allowed.

And wotabout the non binaries?

Surely if things can be mixed sex and you can call them mixed gender if you like, then something can be single sex and be called single gender ??

I think this is fine, they have clarified who they expect to attend in a desperate PR grab

What would be wrong is if TGWomen automatically turned up assuming that they would be admitted.

I think I understand.

So yes, a woman's group could include men if they wanted to. What they couldn't do is include some males (transwomen) and exclude others.

Gender isn't a protected characteristic so there is no provision for single gender exceptions.

Mixed sex just means everyone.