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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
puffyisgood · 26/03/2025 08:18

Mielikki · 26/03/2025 07:56

Actually, I just remembered that WA rules already ban individuals who have been through male-type puberty regardless of their karotype or current testosterone levels. Same as UCI.

these stories are always so badly reported (through I think a mixture of ignorance and sometimes dishonesty) that it's really hard to know what to make of them without yourself poring through the pages and pages of legal documentation (once they're in the public domain), which is a bit much for most of us.

so my part guessed understanding of this new rule about cheek swabbing is that:

  1. it doesn't change the WA eligibility criteria (at the moment, DSD athletes are allowed into the female category provided they satisfy at least one of the following three criteria - (i) they're female in terms of organs, chromosomes, etc; (ii) their T levels are close to the female range, either naturally or through taking synthetic hormones; or (iii) they don't react to male level T, eg they have CAIS.

  2. but at the moment, not every female athlete takes a test along the above lines, instead, who takes it is basically at WA's discretion, they'll single people out based on eg their psychical appearance or maybe eg things that have been spotted through urine (drug) testing (eg things that are correlated with high T levels).

  3. what this new rule will do is basically take that discretion away over who is subjected to some kind of testing, since everyone will take the initial screening cheek swab test, without changing the full on determinative test itself.

so I suppose a great advantage of this new approach (in addition to probably catching a few more people) is that it's less potentially discriminatory/won't lead to individuals being subject to full testing based on arguably subjective criteria which I suppose could have eg a racial element sometimes.

a possible disadvantage will be the cost and hassle of many more people being tested, and that very few people who aren't already being targeted because they look and sound male will be likely to fail all of tests (i) to (iii) above.

Helleofabore · 26/03/2025 08:41

Mielikki · 26/03/2025 07:56

Actually, I just remembered that WA rules already ban individuals who have been through male-type puberty regardless of their karotype or current testosterone levels. Same as UCI.

This is the current policy, I checked since I posted it yesterday and it is the current one.

Version 3.0, approved by Council on 23 March 2023, and coming into effect on 31 March 2023:

3* *Eligibility Conditions for Relevant Athletes

3.1 A "Relevant Athlete" is an Athlete who meets each of the following three criteria:
3.1.1 they have one of the following DSDs:
2.7.1.1 ensure that the information is accurate and complete; and
2.7.1.2 not provide any information in bad faith, to harass, stigmatise or otherwise injure an athlete, or for any other improper purpose.
3.1.1.1 5α-reductase type 2 deficiency;
3.1.1.2 partial androgen insensitivity syndrome (aka PAIS);
3.1.1.3 17β-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase type 3 (17β-HSD3) deficiency;
3.1.1.5 any other genetic disorder involving disordered gonadal steroidogenesis; and
3.2 3.3 3.1.1.4 ovotesticular DSD; or
3.1.2 as a result, they have a concentration of testosterone of 2.5 nmol/L or more in their serum; and
3.1.3 they have sufficient androgen sensitivity for that testosterone to have a material androgenising effect.

3.2 To be eligible to compete in the female classification at a World Rankings Competition, and/or to have recognised any World Record performance in a competition that is not a World Rankings Competition, a Relevant Athlete must meet each of the following conditions (the "DSD Eligibility Conditions"):

3.2.1 they must be recognised at law (for example, in a birth certificate or passport) either as female or as intersex;
3.2.2 they must have continuously maintained the concentration of testosterone in their serum below 2.5 nmol/L3 for a period of at least 24 months; and
3.2.3 they must continue to maintain the concentration of testosterone in their serum below 2.5 nmol/L at all times (i.e., whether they are in competition or out of competition) for so long as they wish to retain eligibility to compete in the female classification at World Rankings Competitions and/or to have recognised any World Record performance in the female classification at a competition that is not a World Rankings Competition.

my bolding to highlight the testosterone and androgenisation clauses.

1apenny2apenny · 26/03/2025 09:09

Good news, we now just need a few more sporting organisations to follow suit and the IOC will be forced to follow although the more that do it will mean their rules will become largely irrelevant as we will all know already who has been tested and it will be hard to dodge.

theilltemperedqueenofspacetime · 26/03/2025 09:45

Somebody tweeted the attached from WA. I can't 100% vouch for it as it may come from a pdf in the members only part of their website, but it's similar to a press release from last month, with the additional information that there will be a pre-clearance test for SRY.

This suggests they are looking at the exclusion of 5-ARD, PAIS etc, but not Swyer (SRY missing or damaged) and that CAIS will be subject to discussion (they are not currently excluded because they are legally female at birth and the existing regulations only cover individuals who are at least partly androgen-sensitive)

Cheek swabs for World Athletics
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