What Adolescence gets wrong. Violent misogyny wasn’t invented overnight

[IwantToRetire]

It would be easy to blame the manosphere for this dire predicament. That’s partly what Adolescence implies, with mentions of incels and teenage boys “taking the red pill”, much to the bewilderment of coppers and parents who aren’t as steeped in internet culture as their own children.

But, as the Centre for Social Justice warns, Andrew Tate and his merry band of masculinist blow-hards are merely symptoms of an underlying problem

This is not to downplay the threat of online radicalisation or the shocking levels of misogyny on the internet. But there are plenty of young men who don’t succumb to the siren call of Tate and the manosphere – we should be asking what makes a person vulnerable to their influence in the first place.

Violent misogyny wasn’t invented overnight. In 2010, the now-defunct Zoo magazine printed advice from actor and advice columnist Danny Dyer telling a heartbroken reader that he should “cut his ex’s face so no one will want her”. Dyer said he was misquoted and does not condone violence against women.

The manosphere isn’t a momentary blip – it’s the latest continuation of a long history of hatefulness, now made hypervisible and accessible on a scale that even the unrepentant lads mag hack would find shocking. But the factors behind the alienation and disenfranchisement of young men have been brewing for years now. Tackle those first, and the rest will follow.

Extracts from article in the i https://inews.co.uk/opinion/columnists/what-adolescence-gets-wrong-3590919

Can also be read at https://archive.is/ZFkqy

Nobody has explained how and why lone boys / young men, some of whom are quite withdrawn loners, are mentally able to go out with a knive intending to use it.

Jamie had been groomed online; and in the session with the psychiatrist he described how as an ugly boy he had to devalue a girl so that she would be more likely to date him. He took the knife on the date and showed it to her but didn't use it on her; in his mind that proved he was not one of the bad guys.

Once a man has acquired a weapon he has crossed a threshold (see The Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker.) which is why its treated as a red flag. He has already thought about needing it, and what he will use it for.

I’ve just watched that episode. He didn’t go on a date with her though, did he? I thought he asked her for a date when he thought she was “weak” and vulnerable after everyone had seen a topless photo of her. But she turned him down and belittled him? Isn’t that why he was angry with her and why he followed her, that and the insults on his instagram? Or have I misunderstood it?

Yes the mother drove me mad pandering to him non stop, appeasing him, trying to keep him calm. It was all about him, his grief, how he felt, and as you say she has to hide her own devastation.

Sorry I was agreeing with this post and meant to quote it in my previous post.

We know that there have always been gangs, tribes, whatever. And they date back way beyond WWII. And it was never just working class boys. Although more likely middle class and particularly upper class would not be written up as such.

What we haven't had is boys (and young men) as individuals going our with knives out to deliberately target someone for some sort of revenge.

Why does everyone keep glossing over this.

The whole point of adolescence was not just do boys feel disrespected by girls. Again that has gone on for centuries.

Where has this idea that getting hold of a knife and stabbing someone is the next natural step.

@IwantToRetire I remember in the 70s skins and teds used to carry stanley knives and small bottles of ammonia; walking the streets or getting a train was terrifying. There would’ve been specific revenge attacks but most often the violence was aimed at someone from another youth culture.

Is the suggestion that misogyny has been around since "as far back" as 2010?!

I've heard a lot of discussion around this topic this week, a lot of it very sensible. But there's an underlying implication that we (probably mostly women, but maybe older men as well) should be more mindful of boys' and young men's feelings because otherwise they'll become violent. I'm not aware of any moment in history when women were safe from violent men. I don't think this is a new phenomenon.

I strongly recommend the BBC sounds podcast "femicide". It's based off the first real research conducted into so-called "crimes of passion". The conclusion being that these murders follow an incredibly predictable pattern, at a very consistent rate.

Potentially the new dimension is that maybe it really is harder for boys/young men to find partners? So this sort of jealousy and revenge is being perpetrated against more peripheral girls/women in their lives? This is pure speculation on my part.

There are two things going on here, IMO.

First is that how news is reported has changed significantly over the past 20 years. We used to get news once a day for half an hour, which naturally meant that coverage was limited and a lot of things happened that might be newsworthy locally, but not nationally. Now, with 24 hour news and the constant requirement for new stuff, we see a lot more news than we used to. So I don't know if there really are significantly more stabbings, or if it's simply that more of them make national news because they're guaranteed clickbait.

On the flipside of that, though, is the fact that it's been shown that people copy what they see. Risk of a school shooting rises in the 6 weeks after a shooting. Children have started to believe that carrying a knife is something they should do because they are seeing in the media that other children are doing it. The same goes for stabbing. A certain type of child is getting the message that this is how you handle some social situations. So the more it happens, the more it is normalised, and the more it happens. But the vast majority of boys are not doing this.

As far as I've seen, in the stabbings we've had, all the boys have had a long history of problematic behaviour which has included carrying/threatening with a knife. It's not out of the blue. Adolescence suggested a good boy who suddenly snapped, and IRL that doesn't seem to be the case, there are always warning signs. What we don't seem able to do yet is to respond to them in a way that works before it is too late.

Adolescence suggested a good boy who suddenly snapped, and IRL that doesn't seem to be the case, there are always warning signs.

But also where or who is saying to these boys (whether good or bad) that they should somehow get hold of a knife and go out as a lone individual to carry out an act of violence.

Which sort of implies, it isn't suddenly snapping, because in most instances the knife it bought in advance.

I think that's what I am trying to understand. The situations of groups or gangs, competing between themselves and the rivals, by having a knive seems more obvious, and having so called allies egg you on.

But to get a knive, plan to go out and use it, and then do it in cold blood as an isolated individual seems very different.

Or is it that there are lots of online videos or whatever promoting this type of behaviour and applauding it.

I don't think they are planning it 'alone' in the way we think. There are frequent stories on the news about boys with knives, which make it seem normal, even though it really isn't. There is discussion of these cases on discord/reddit etc, and the issue of children talking to people online who are pretending to be something that they're not. There are youtube videos explaining how to use/conceal a knife. Once a boy is in his unique internet rabbit hole, the algorithms actively work to make it seem like this is something that's normal and that everyone is doing, but he is seeing personalised content that's giving him a false view of the world. Quite a few of the children sentenced for knife crime have talked about wanting to be famous, to be on the news with everyone talking about them. They admire other children who have done it. This is coming from their internet use, although there is something in them that starts them on that path.

And most of them aren't buying a knife, they're nicking one from the kitchen drawer.

Once a boy is in his unique internet rabbit hole, the algorithms actively work to make it seem like this is something that's normal and that everyone is doing,

Maybe it is this.

I have been thinking back, and dont want to name the women (as it is hateful that that is how their names are known) whose lives have been taken by lone "agents". And in many instances there has been a common thread of men/boys having been engrossed in the virtual world, and the worst aspect being that women should be target.

A short while ago when there was some sort of ministerial statement about recognising misogyny as a sort of terrorism or something, I really did think that maybe we could begin to stop what seems to be increasing hatred of women.

Or rather a hatred that women have got above themselves, wanting to be equal, wanting to have rights, and not accepting their traditional role as the quiet, unquestioning supporter of men.

@CheekySnake’s “parenting by algorithm”

very much this

a male friend decided to get fit and started following a few gyms / ppl on Facebook. He said his feed was suddenly filled with awful misogynistic content

That shocks me. Fitness industry as a gateway to incel culture.

I suppose that this is what the Tates promoted. They’re not incel culture (actually the opposite) but they still hate women and see them as objects.

the other thing that has shocked me this weekend is the Porta Potty parties in Dubai. Dr Em did a thread on them after a woman was found dumped by the road side with broken legs and spine. She’s been unable to talk but all who know her know she went to one of these.

Warning: a tough read x.com/pankhurstem/status/1903343737087971371?s=46&t=A2fpFNgDRyXF2d6ye97wEA