Boyish girls and girlish boys in 20th century children's literature

[SaltPorridge]

George in "The Famous Five", Enid Blyton

Peter in Malcolm Saville's books set in Shropshire

Nancy and Peggy in Swallows and Amazons, Arthur Ransome

Petrova in "Ballet Shoes", Noel Streatfield

Please add more/ discuss/ disagree etc.

Love all these responses.
Another Arthur Ransome character: twins Port and Starboard in Coot Club.
I can't define why I think some girls are boyish and others not: i think it's the names and clothes.
It's not that the girly girls weren't strong capable superheroes. Titty wins the war by seizing Amazon and taking her across the lake in the dark, marooning Nancy and Peggy on the island.
Velvet disguises herself as a boy to compete in the Grand National (in "National Velvet", whoever that's by). But she's not boyish - she's a horse-mad girly girl.

Quick Google. This looked interesting.

Rather random bloggy article, but chose it because - interestingly in itself - attempting to find egs of "feminine" boys in children's lit turned up a LOT of refs to queering, homosexuality & gender identity. Telling, perhaps? (Still unacceptable in its own right - still needing to be labelled and legitimised as reassuringly "Other"?)

Oops. Link:

https://www.romper.com/life/where-are-the-books-that-show-different-ways-to-be-a-boy-34776935

And update now have read to the end. Interesting author.

I read it with an S1/Y8 class. The boys protested that Tyke couldn't possibly be a girl!

Dorothea trying to cook a rabbit! How she worried about it.

AR's characters are just so much better drawn than Blytons. Blytons girls are often either wimps or want to be a boy.

Blyton's characters often insist on being called boys names and wear boys clothing and get thrilled when someone thinks they are a boy.

Nancy and Peggy just are what they are. They never try and change their very feminine names.

How about Poirot, especially as played by David Suchet?

Always immaculate, very concerned with his appearance, not at all physical. There’s never any doubt at all that he’s a man but he doesn’t conform to all the masculine stereotypes.

Or Harriet Vane, to an extent, & more strongly her friend Eiluned Price.

Irritating thought - don't want to be too cynical on such a lovely thread - but... does Poirot "get away with" being rather effete because of his superpower of an intellect? He may not be literally head and shoulders above everyone in the room... but he's head and shoulders above them in the other stereotyped sense of rational thought (iyswim!) Ditto Cumberbatch's Sherlock...

Although Sherlock's pretty tall as well. 😂

Laura ingalls wilder, to some extent.

Ooh, interesting thought... Do we see rather more effeminate villains than heroes? A kind of "othering", again? Eg. whatshisname as Moriarty? And one of the recent Bond villains - the one in the white suit who flirts with Bond? Sorry, no time to Google!

Yes. I think it also helps that he’s Belgian, so any perceived ‘eccentricities’ are more likely to be accepted, especially since the books are set in the past.

Don't let me derail, though. Just thinking aloud. Nostalgia about Blyton infinitely preferable!

Ha, yes - good point!

Speaking of...

Tintin? Slight, boyish, that cowlick fringe and Snowy, all juxtaposed against muscly Haddock?

Albert Sandwich in ‘Carrie’s War’ is presented as a non-stereotypical boy IMO. He’s quiet, bookish, and likes listening to Hepzibah’s stories of the olden days.

also Mark and Marianne in ‘Marianne Dreams’ have a type of role reversal because of their illnesses & the dynamic set up. Catherine Storr also wrote ‘Clever Polly & the Stupid Wolf’ where Polly outwits the wolf on a regular basis.

Well… of course Nancy’s name is Ruth but pirates are ruthless so that wouldn’t do - but she didn’t go and choose a masculine name.

@booksunderthebed Nancy and Peggy just are what they are. They never try and change their very feminine names.

But Nancy's name is Ruth and she changed it because pirates are ruthless. Didn't the great-aunt insist on calling them by their 'proper' names Ruth and Margaret?

I think this thread is going to leave me with about a month of re-reading to do.

I forgot that Nancy was really Ruth. Nancy is a much more piratical name than Ruth, but still very feminine.

Peggy’s name is Margaret, so they did change their names.

I don’t think we ever find out why Titty’s real name is, or do we? Is it Mavis?

And, yes, I want to get back inside Dorothea's head.

I always liked that Peter in Hunger Games was a reflective baker with a penchant for frosting! Quite masculine in various other ways, but always thought that was unusual and impressive. Lots of other stuff going on there, too, though - poor guy needs to be set up to be rescued by Katniss & a foil to handsome Gale etc. Clever series - love Hunger Games rather more than I should...

(Clearly did have time to Google above after all, as find myself still thinking instead of going to bed! Am reluctantly off now).

Nancy and Peggy just are what they are. They never try and change their very feminine names.

Nancy's name was Ruth, and Peggy was Margaret. They changed their names because Amazons were ruthless.
I grew up thinking Nancy was a tough name - not sure quite what Ransome intended. He wasn't good at subtle social cues, or he would have realised Titty was problematic.

It’s a long time since I read the books so I can’t remember if there was ever anything about them actually wanting to be boys, or if they simply wanted to be able to do all the things boys could do.

Not children's books, but books we (mostly) first read when young - what about the menservants who fulfill the nurturing 'wifely' role for various bachelors - Jeeves, Bunter, Lugg, Georges - there's no suggestion any of them are unmanly or that they're gay, but they're great at keeping the place clean, rustling up a snack and generally being indispensable.

That’s a good point. And all the male chefs, usually French, like Aunt Dahlia’s Anatole.

I don’t think they were fussed about not being taught Latin. Though of course another kick-ass female character (though probably politically incorrect nowadays) was Missee Lee, with plans to study it at Cambridge iirc.

Pippi Longstocking!!! Actually got up to add her. Hope no one else got there first!