Sex and Gender are different and they are both important

[Igmum]

A new article in the Journal of Academic Ethics by Madeleine Munzer, Nicole Jameson, Arianwen Harris, Ciara Curren, Natalie Dinsdale and Karleen Gribble says both sex and gender are important in research and reports women leaving studies when their sex isn't accurately reported. Who'd have thought it eh?

Link to article: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10805-025-09605-3

Abstract of the Article
Including women in research and collecting and disaggregating data on sex is an ethical imperative. However, increasingly gender identity is being prioritised over sex in data collection and language which has ethical implications. In this paper, the authors share their experiences as study participants; a health consumer advocate, patient research advisor, and lay researcher; and academic researchers of engaging with researchers, Human Research Ethics Committees (HRECs), university ethics offices, and editors and reviewers of journals regarding data collection and communication on sex and gender identity. We argue that HRECs, researchers, and publishers must carefully consider the implications of omitting data collection on sex, mandatory and universalising gender identity questions and use of desexed language. We also propose that reduced data collection and disaggregation by sex, universal imposition of gender identity, and use of desexed language in research is decreasing data quality, reducing the willingness of some to participate in research and is culturally imperialistic. Recommendations for HRECs are made and research needs in relation to sex and gender identity are outlined. Respect for women in the conduct of research requires their sex-related experiences and needs are considered and therefore that data on sex is appropriately collected and reported upon.

Coverage in the THES https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/prioritisation-gender-identity-exacerbates-female-data-gap?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=editorial-daily&spMailingID=30835500&spUserID=MTY4NzgzNTQyMzQyNQS2&spJobID=2670729381&spReportId=MjY3MDcyOTM4MQS2

Here's to a future of sensible research

It’s difficult to know how much of an impact this is having, because I don’t know how many of us there are who reject any survey or questionnaire that doesn’t allow me to record my sex and suggests I have a gender identity, but there is no doubt it will be skewing data.

There will also be skewing of data where sex is asked for as there will be some who lie, but if a return was made to asking for sex and an additional question was added about gender identity, that would probably lessen over time.

I hope there will come a time when scientists can go back to simply using sex, but for now the trans lobby are so powerful that it would cause additional disruption. There’s also the fact that, when it comes to certain activities and behaviours, it might be useful to see whether there are useful stats relating to GI. For example when recording crime, it would be useful if that data was collected as then an informed decision might be possible regarding the relative safety of people in sex segregated spaces and transactivists who make unevidenced claims about the relative safety of those spaces for various people could be proven or debunked.

I must admit that if it is important that I submit the form/survey, I roll my eyes and just select sex and prefer not to say. I am getting to the stage though that I don’t k is what the answer to the predicament is. To collect valid and accurate data, the question should be asked to reduce the false ‘what is your sex’ answers. However, asking about gender identity does tend to force belief the nature of the question. Just like asking about religion. Answers are usually posed as ‘Atheist’ rather than ‘I don’t believe in any religious belief’

So either the question has to be posed to encourage an accurate answer to the sex question and not offend those who believe in gender identity theory, or it may lead to inaccuracies. Or you will offend respondents with the question if you force belief in the answers and not give an option of ‘I don’t believe in gender identity’ rather than ‘I don’t have a gender identity’. And I personally think there is a difference but I am not sure that others think that deeply about it.

No, I absolutely do not believe that a male can have a female brain or vice versa. This is why I asked the previous pp that made the comment 'there's no difference between them' to explain her thought process on this ludicrous comment.

So what is the difference between a girl sex and a girl gender (and boy)? Please explain gender without cliches of what male and females are like

I'll immediately stop any survey or questionnaire if I get to the sex/gender question and see a garbled menu of options.

It's annoying enough when it's a casual survey looking for my feedback on a museum visit.

It's genuinely infuriating when it's a supposed scientific/medical study where they want my private medical information, commitment to longterm participation and blood/DNA samples. I signed up for this one a couple of weeks ago, being an issue that I think is very important. The very first two questions were as screenshotted. I just stopped right there and now they keep sending me emails asking me to complete my joining-up assessment. I'm going to have to contact them to withdraw and asking for all my signing-up data to be deleted, but I can't be bothered for now.

And I hope I have explained clearly enough where the differences are.

We had this option added to our most recent employer survey (thanks to the SEEN Network). I agree that it is still not perfect, but it is better than the alternative where people are forced to select a gender identity. The TRAs in the organisation were raging that it was added as an option.

My concern is that it is still confusing for the lay person who is not au fait with the lingo. My oh, who also works there (and is GC), had to ask me how to answer it as he wasn't quite sure what it meant. We haven't had the results yet, but it will be interesting to see how many selected this option.

Actually, now that I think about it, I think the option was 'I don't believe I have a gender identity', but my oh (who definitely doesn't believe he has a gender identity) was wary of selecting this as he was worried there was some word trickery going on and he didn't want to inadvertently agree with the TRAs. I think this a sign of how much language around this has been obfuscated.

It is a sign of the growing distrust due to language demands and the threat of repercussions for wrong think.

Whether we like it or not, gender identity exists. Some people believe it is possible to be a gender that is not aligned with their sex in the same way that there are people who believe in a deity. I think a "none" option is reasonable.

I know what the differences are. I didn't ask for the differences. I asked for the pp to explain why she thought there is no difference.

Perhaps you misinterpreted my post.

I am the ‘pp’ you are referring to.

My impression is that Helle was talking about the idiots who claim that it’s possible to have a ‘female brain’ in a male body because of how they think or feel, while actually the only thing that’s going to make a brain female or male is the sex of the body it’s in.

Genuinely fascinating stuff. Somewhat depressing that it needs saying; but hopefully there will be some movement on this in academia - & indeed elsewhere.

It enrages me when publications ostensibly about women’s history include male people; & I’m fed beyond my back teeth with [local] government & the NHS asking about gender rather than sex. Do not get me started on my local autism service offering a group for autistic women that is open to male people who say The Magic Words…

Since there isn't a clear, comprehensive and universally-accepted definition of what 'gender' actually is, using it in surveys, questionnaires, etc., is introducing a big blob of uncertainty into your conclusions.

Using 'gender' to the exclusion of 'sex' is like dismantling the foundations of the building you're constructing.

I'm OK with 'gender' meaning 'the social expectations of men and women', as the authors of the article say.
In this way, gender identity became enmeshed with the concept of ‘gender’ developed by feminist philosophers to describe the social expectations of men and women (Mikkola, 2024).

This is how I experienced whatever it was I experienced as a little girl - whether 'gender dysphoria' or 'gender questioning', I was certainly gender non-conforming, and wouldn't/couldn't accept the social expectations of being a girl who was going to grow up to be a woman. My 8-year-old self would have added a 😱emoji to the idea of having to be a woman.

But that is totally irrelevant to data collection, unless the research is specifically about gender-nonconforming girls. It has no place on a form or questionnaire.

It's not often that anyone on FWR refers to a Judith Butler book as an illustration, but relax, I'm not going to quote from it, I'm just going to show the cover, which is a photo of two sisters. The little girl on the left reminds me of me - awkward and unhappy about having to present as a girl.
I think that was to do with 'gender', I can't think now else to explain the disconnect between what I was told I was, and what I felt I was, or wanted to be.

Spoiler alert: I worked it out, and I wish all gender-nonconforming little girls could learn the same thing: my sex is female, but I can be anything I damn well want!
Nobody helped me work that out, but mercifully nobody hindered either, with puberty blockers or binders or talk of transitioning.

Yes empress. Thank you. I can only assume my attempt at sarcasm was a failure. 😁

Sex is biological and immutable. Women and girls are of the sex class that produces large gametes (eggs), men and boys of the sex class that produces small gametes (sperm). Some people have DSDs (differences of sexual development) but these are always within a sex class (so men have DSDs that women do not/cannot physically have). There is no third/intermediate sex.

Gender describes the social roles/assumptions/stereotypes associated with each sex (men strong, engineering; women pink, housework). You cannot really explain gender without reference to these cliches because it is the overall term for them. Assumptions about gender do change and are often inaccurate but it is, nonetheless, a useful term to describe the assumptions a society makes.

Gender ideology assumes that these mutable, challengeable social stereotypes are immutable gender essences which somehow change the body and that immutable biological sex is somehow mutable at will and occasionally at drugs. I know it doesn't make sense but there it is.

Kucinghitam · Today 08:51

I'll immediately stop any survey or questionnaire if I get to the sex/gender question and see a garbled menu of options.

It's genuinely infuriating when it's a supposed scientific/medical study where they want my private medical information, commitment to longterm participation and blood/DNA samples. I signed up for this one a couple of weeks ago, being an issue that I think is very important. The very first two questions were as screenshotted. I just stopped right there and now they keep sending me emails asking me to complete my joining-up assessment. I'm going to have to contact them to withdraw and asking for all my signing-up data to be deleted, but I can't be bothered for now.

Hell's Bells! That is ridiculous in the setting you describe.

I posted about this in the other place: 3 years ago, my dog needed an operation and on the paper dorm, I crossed out gender and wrote sex. The vet (a woman) looked at it, said, "Oh... yes, it's a bit ridiculous, isn't it?"

I appreciate that it's infuriating with an electronic one, with no alternative.

Form, not dorm...