Fear for your job still?

[tobee]

I occasionally post a thread on here to see asking what people are thinking about the way the current wind is blowing in various areas.

So tonight I'm asking if people are still feeling in fear of losing their jobs for GC views these days? Or have you heard anecdotally of friends or relations or whatever of losing their jobs for same, and in which areas/industries?

Obviously I'm aware of Forstater and the Peggie case. And that it might be more subtle than losing your job.

I'm in Education and feel I have to remain guarded with my views. There have been instances where I have quietly protested such as ignoring joining in with DEI surveys and workshops and also not including pronouns on my emails.

Thought this might be of interest

Sheila Jeffreys (UK/Aus radfem academic) has written a report for Reem Alsalem, UN rapporteur on violence against women and girls, laying out why men who identify as women in the workplace and seek validation and cooperation from female colleagues can be seen as harassing women. For those of you actively trying to influence your employers or HR departments, it might be worth flagging up as a potential problem. Also, I think, useful for helping women in the position of having to work with trans-identifying men to reframe what's happening to them as harassment.

PS No idea why the video is showing twice: I pasted just one link.

My job is at risk as I am chronically sick and they could easily find a different plausible reason to get rid of me. Still a member of SEEN and out on Twitter and really just hoping this will all eventually go away, without it becoming an issue.

I am civil service. Can't join SEEN as the LGBTQ or whatever they're called groups scan calendars to see who is in it and raise complaints. In a particularly "sensitive" area of the civil service, there's a man that posts all over the local women's network. I've gradually been able to carefully locate some allies along the way, but not a chance in hell I'd speak up.

By contrast (the one time I think it's ok to raise your DH's work on MN ha) he's military, and whilst on a high level it's pushing all the trans agenda and at a certain rank and above you have to be very careful, locally, most people shun it. And one admirable sgt refused a male's attempts at insisting he used the female toilet and instead renamed the male toilet as unisex.

That's awful!

This might be DH’s work - changed all the office loos to unisex a while back?

@BoeotianNightmare yup, and ironically prides itself on its "inclusive community"

@ghqpabks that’s dreadful! Also, isn’t it harassment?

@SidewaysOtter I know it got reported to the DPO but I'm not sure what happened, I've just been fearful to look into it since hearing that.

Could you report the reporting to SEEN, just so they know about it? Even if you have to report anonymously.

@SidewaysOtter my understanding is that it is all known and being dealt with, I've no idea what's happening exactly (it hasn't happened to me specifically, someone forewarning me about joining the network as they were closer to the detail).

This is what I worry about. It silently being embedded into these structures. Like Japanese knotweed or something.

It's one thing when we see stories about Isla Bryson where it's headline news and pretty stark to see the issues. But the frighteningly clever way the pro TRA agenda pushed for change while the going was good for them; is insidious and dangerous.

Hopefully the exposure from the headline cases will cause the knotweed to in turn whither away.

I feel the arts and academia will be the last to return to a semblance of normality. And not far behind, shockingly, the NHS.

When this type of comment is made, could you try asking questions? Maybe if the people who say this nonsense were asked 'oh really? What did she say?' they'd start to realise it's all just built on sand.

I work in libraries which are totally captured. I have made the occasional comment on an adjacent issue or to a specific person on something with wide acceptance, like men in women's prisons is bad, but only very carefully.

Many years ago, I had some personal experiences with a trans situation and my GC views were very obvious then and I was very vocal at work about it too. I didn't know terms like TRA or GC views though back then as it was before this all really kicked off. I was not once considered to be saying anything dreadful and people generally seemed to agree with me.
Then the trans bandwagon really got rolling and I became quieter and quieter until I said nothing and just kept to myself. I then changed jobs and was shocked by just how full on my new company was with 'being allies' etc and I definitely didn't dare say anything.
I'm in another new place now and here, I do, once again feel safe to speak out. Possibly for several reasons though - this place doesn't seem to be captured, the current swell of more and more people speaking out publicly, but the main reason, if I'm honest, is I'm less reliant on my job now. If I left tomorrow, I'd manage OK. Previously, I was desperately reliant on work, just as so many are, and it's terrible that it stops so many of us from being able to speak out on behalf of our own safety.

I quietly do what I can, such as via occasional anonymous staff surveys.

Is there anything we can do as a patient of the NHS, or a customer of (for example) a library? Apart from hiding the kids books about how it's great to slice off your body parts at the back of the shelves of course.

I did exactly that just yesterday…

Yes. I fear because if I were to be absolutely open with my views then my funding would disappear and if that happened not only would my job disappear but the valuable work of my organisation would disappear too.

Frankly, my boss is not - how shall we say? - a good conversationalist. It's difficult to get a word in edgeways and there is absolutely no interest in my reaction. Broadcast mode only, on this and almost all other topics.

But I have used this technique successfully in other situations.

I work for a Canadian owned global company, I feel I have to be careful about what I say in work. We've recently had some mandatory training around allyship that has got a lot of people are talking, just not in the way that management expected.

Wow! “Join us, and be an armed thug! Or we will terrorise you and your friends!”

That could (I hope) be counterproductive, even if no one had the courage to challenge it at the time.

And I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t have had the guts to speak up! But even if I’d never heard of genderists before, it would have put me off them.

I'm confident a couple of people in my team would grass me up if they heard me mentioning any gender critical views. I've got 1 person on my team who shares my views and we have secret conversations about it - and share Robert Galbraith books.

I've got the fear currently because I gave a service user some advice about watchful waiting and social transitioning not being a neutral act. Feel like I might get into bother in some way?