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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Conservative women believe complicity will save them. But an emboldened far-right is gunning for their rights - and therefore all women in the USA

96 replies

IwantToRetire · 27/02/2025 01:23

... now that Roe v. Wade has been overturned and Donald Trump is back in the White House, many on the right feel they no longer need to hide the naked sexism fueling their movement or put up with the annoyance of women in even token leadership positions. As Kiera Butler at Mother Jones reports, the anti-abortion movement is embroiled in an escalating civil war right now over these issues. Male leaders of the Christian right have been swarming Kristan Hawkins, the 39-year-old head of a "student" anti-abortion group, demanding her ejection from the movement. It started after she objected to Republican legislators introducing bills to charge women who get abortions with murder, an extreme move she fears will backfire on the movement. But mostly it was about growing male anger on the Christian right that women are allowed leadership positions at all.

"Removed [sic] this woman from public service," declared influential Christian nationalist pastor Joel Webbon, part of the "TheoBros" movement that includes the leadership of Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth's church. Soon other TheoBros jumped in, declaring "We need Christian men leading the fight against abortion," arguing that women's suffrage was a mistake, and accusing Hawkins of emasculating her husband by being "busy jet-setting."

Webbon and the TheoBros have been clamoring more loudly in recent months about their wish to strip women, especially their own wives, of the right to vote. "You won't let women vote? Well, our society doesn't let five-year-olds vote," Webbon explained in a May podcast. He added that "a woman is like a child" and that "God has appointed men to protect them." As Sarah Stankorb at the New Republic documented, there has been growing support in Christian nationalist circles "for the repeal of the 19th Amendment and support a 'household vote' system in which men vote on behalf of their families." Hegseth's former sister-in-law reports she heard him echo similar sentiments.

This isn't mere idle chatter, either. House Republicans passed a bill (which stalled in the Senate) this session to require citizens to have a passport or birth certificate matching their name to vote. This would be a back-door ban on voting for any woman who took her husband's last name and doesn't have a passport, an estimated 69 million women. It would also disproportionately affect Republican women, who are more likely to be married, more likely to have changed their name and less likely to have a passport.

article as a whole with many shocking comments about women is at https://www.salon.com/2025/02/26/a-woman-is-like-a-child-maga-quickly-turns-its-sights-on-stripping-women-of-power/

OP posts:
AliasGrace47 · 05/09/2025 16:43

IwantToRetire · 27/02/2025 18:17

Just in case anyone is interested, I didn't write the article nor do I know if it was fact checked before being published.

I perhaps misled in the title by not adding a quesiton mark at the end. ie if Republican women's rights are going to be removed then surely it means all women in the US will their rights removed.

So not sure the intention of the writer, but it reminded me more of the sort of lecturing of AGCL (Actual Gender Critical Left) of blaming Republican women for somehow being responsible for what Republican men have and are wanting to do. ie even when men are the cause of the problem it is still women's fault.

(NB not posted to derail this thread to talk about AGCL again!)

I do blame women who support these fringe types. It's not all or nothing, women DO share responsibility when they support that type of misogyny. But I don't blame women who are simply Republican or voted Trump., that's ridiculous & cruel given the way the Democrats forced hands with their insane trans stance and other positions.

AliasGrace47 · 05/09/2025 16:46

SionnachRuadh · 27/02/2025 13:49

@MarieDeGournay You're way more over the detail than I am and it's quite possible my memory has made Hillary's "alt-right" speech less boring than it was.

I'm less inclined to give Biden the benefit of the doubt. Racial demagoguery was his stock in trade before his brain turned to porridge. If he referenced chains, I just don't believe he did it by accident.

I'm not a particular fan of Romney, but he's got that very Mormon combination of being sincerely anti-racist while never seeming comfortable around nonwhite people, and it's my firm belief that Biden played on that consistently.

Can I ask why you think Romney is that way? I understand you mean he's not actually racist, it's more that he's uncomfortable due to being mostly familiar w white people? I know the Mormon church has a but of an agonised history w excluding black members until Carter forced them to change in the 70s, I assume this is linked in some way?

AliasGrace47 · 05/09/2025 16:53

TempestTost · 27/02/2025 10:31

This works both ways, presumably anyone who votes Democrat is complicit in the sterilization of children, and putting men in women's prisons?

Yes, they are.

  I do personally feel concerned about the kind of clowns outlined in the OP's article. But I don't blame people for voting Trump bc these positions are unquestionably fringe and it seems really unlikely they could impose such unpopular ideas, esp as the US is an armed country, for one thing.

Whereas sadly it's unquestionable that the Dems have supported and do so support those ongoing atrocities.

AliasGrace47 · 05/09/2025 17:10

TempestTost · 27/02/2025 10:43

Yes.

I always think - do people spouting this rhetoric not know any conservative, or Republican, women? Or know of them? Like .... all the ones in Trump's administration? Or people like Condi Rice? Do they really see these women as barefoot in a kitchen? There are a lot of Republican women in the American Senate now, and in recent years they've elected the first Cherokee woman and first Korean woman. I just can't get over this casual claim that Republicans are looking to disenfranchise women, it's a complete fantasy.

The whole "women in the kitchen" thing is at the level of saying any woman who is aligned with the Democrats believes in the dissolution of the family or wants infants gestated in bags.

More generally - the article in the OP is 20 years out of date. The Christian evangelicals aren't a powerhouse in the party these days at the federal level. It's more variable at the state level I believe, but state politics are a different beast and not something that people in the UK seem to have a very good handle on.

I agree mostly: there surely are women like that in the Republican party though? I know they aren't the majority by any means. But things like the Quiverfull and Christian patriarchy movements do exist, so presumably women supporting those ideas are among the ones who vote Republican.

There have been sitting Republican women who have endorsed some ideas. Amy Coney Barrett is a member of the charismatic evangelical group People of Praise, which endorses men being the heads of households. Moreover, people within Christianity, (a NCR journalist for one) have argued it's disturbingly controlling. There have been allegations of sexual abuse from women inside.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/sep/26/amy-coney-barrett-supreme-court-donald-trump-people-of-praise

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/aug/26/amy-coney-barrett-faith-group-people-of-praise

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/21/amy-coney-barrett-people-of-praise-trauma-abuse

This lady, Abbey Johnson, is another example: supports household voting.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=19thnews.org/2020/08/on-eve-of-suffrage-centennial-milestone-rnc-to-feature-speaker-supporting-policies-barring-women-from-voting/&ved=2ahUKEwjI_emPgMKPAxVwVUEAHU2EHH0QFnoECCIQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2JsXPF5A7XeIEJCnAJnRCg

Now, I know quite well this isn't representative of most Republican/conservative Christian women. Obvs, moreover, Ms Barrett can't take female subservience that seriously given the position she holds now.

But I think it's slightly unfair to imply that people who accuse Republican women of being like that are completely wrong and just ignorant, bc there are documented examples of concerning stuff from Republican women. Barrett, for one, is clearly in a high position.

Revealed: leaked video shows Amy Coney Barrett’s secretive faith group drove women to tears

Wife of founder of People of Praise says members ‘were always crying’ during discussions about women’s subservience to men

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/aug/26/amy-coney-barrett-faith-group-people-of-praise

AliasGrace47 · 05/09/2025 17:11

Mielikki · 27/02/2025 09:22

And in other news, the US has pressured Romania to release suspected women traffickers and rapists the Tate brothers, who are currently on a private jet to the US, where they will no doubt be lauded by the "pro women" MAGA movement.

Yes, wasn't Trump meant to be all about 'protecting women whether they want it or not'?

AliasGrace47 · 05/09/2025 17:13

SionnachRuadh · 27/02/2025 09:16

I've said this before but I don't mind repeating it. The Democrats had some success memeing Project 2025 because hardly anyone is going to actually read this 900 page tome.

The Heritage Foundation has been producing these volumes of proposed policies for future GOP administrations every four years since the early 1980s. Left-leaning think tanks like the Center for American Progress produce similar volumes meant to inform future Democratic administrations. This is what think tanks do.

90% of what's in Project 2025 is boilerplate Reaganite conservatism. There are a few gestures to Trumpian populism.

Some policy bods in the administration will read the volume, cherrypick any policies that look popular and ignore the rest. This is what politicians do with think tank product.

There will certainly be policy proposals coming down the line that need to be opposed. But I really doubt that an administration that's got Pam Bondi and Harmeet Dhillon leading the Department of Justice is going to try and impose a tradwife regime on America.

Yeah, I meant take one proposal, Trump would upset a lot of his young male support base if he followed Project 2025 and banned porn...

DrBlackbird · 05/09/2025 17:17

@AliasGrace47 this is the third near zombie (months old threads anyhow) thread you’ve resurrected. Just curious if you have any particular reason for doing so?

SionnachRuadh · 05/09/2025 17:23

AliasGrace47 · 05/09/2025 16:35

So you don't think these kinds of figures matter? I hope not. What about Douglas Wilson though, and figures like him? His links to Pete Hegseth worry me. I know his actual views on things like women's suffrage are fringe, including in evangelical etc circles, but he still does seem to have quite a lot of evangelical influence.

I realise Mother Jones had an anti-Republican bias, but I did think the TheoBros article that OP also links to seemed to show more influence is possessed by these type of figures than you imply.

I don't know who Douglas Wilson is, and I don't know why you've chosen to resurrect a months old zombie thread to try to associate me with him.

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 05/09/2025 17:26

DrBlackbird · 05/09/2025 17:17

@AliasGrace47 this is the third near zombie (months old threads anyhow) thread you’ve resurrected. Just curious if you have any particular reason for doing so?

I was going to ask the same question - but it’s a lot more than 3 zombies.

AliasGrace47 · 05/09/2025 17:58

SionnachRuadh · 05/09/2025 17:23

I don't know who Douglas Wilson is, and I don't know why you've chosen to resurrect a months old zombie thread to try to associate me with him.

I apologise, I'm not trying to associate you with him at all, I know you don't have those kind of views. Your posts always seem very politically knowledgeable, so I was interested to know your opinion. But I understand totally if you don't want to reply to zombie threads.

Douglas Wilson is a Calvinist pastor who appears to have quite a lot of influence in religious circles and beyond. He is close to Pete Hegseth, for one. He debated Christopher Hitchens in the past, now he's more well-known for some interesting views : women should not have the vote, sex between men should be illegal, and biblical patriarchy is the way to go, among others. The article in OP's post about the TheoBros is obvs biased against him, but it does raise some worrying questions, esp as JD Vance seems to run in similar circles (I'm not at all keen on Vance's Opus Dei membership either).

The podcast Sons of Patriarchy and book Disobedient Women by Sarah Stankorb have shed light on worrying allegations about Wilson's Idaho church community : that he turned a blind eye to paedophilia & encouraged women to stay with violent husbands. His wife Nancy has written a book about the duties of a wife called The Fruit of her Hands in which she compares a wife's body to a garden, and says 'Of course a husband is never trespassing in his own garden' : ie. There is no such thing as marital rape, which might offer some clues as to her husband's attitudes.

AliasGrace47 · 05/09/2025 18:00

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 05/09/2025 17:26

I was going to ask the same question - but it’s a lot more than 3 zombies.

I'm sorry about that. If I come across an interesting point I often think it's still worth addressing on the off chance the person wants to reply. But I understand it should not clog the boards, I promise not to do it again.

AliasGrace47 · 05/09/2025 18:00

DrBlackbird · 05/09/2025 17:17

@AliasGrace47 this is the third near zombie (months old threads anyhow) thread you’ve resurrected. Just curious if you have any particular reason for doing so?

I'm sorry about that. If I come across an interesting point I often think it's still worth addressing on the off chance the person wants to reply. But I understand it should not clog the boards, I promise not to do it again.

AliasGrace47 · 05/09/2025 18:17

TakeMyLifeAndLetItBe · 27/02/2025 11:50

Joel Webbon is a Christian with a Biblical worldview. I agree with him on this but it takes having a Biblical worldview to understand why he is saying this and why it is a good thing.

Are you referring to Joel Webbon's statement that the 19th Amendment is unbiblical?

Does this mean that you believe women should not have the vote...?

And that it is un Christian for them to have it?

AliasGrace47 · 05/09/2025 18:27

@TakeMyLifeAndLetItBe, here are some interesting quotes I found in an article on Joel Webbon & men with similar views.

Do you agree with these gentlemen?

if so, might you like to explain why?

John McEntee, a cofounder of the Right Stuff (a Trump advisor during his first term) posted a video on X (formerly Twitter) in October 2024 stating: “When we say we wanted mail only voting we meant male – M-A-L-E…The 19th Amendment might have to go.” (McEntee later said he was joking. Right.)

Dominic Bnonn Tennant, co-author of “It’s Good To Be A Man,” stated that women’s suffrage is a “rebellion” against God and that “voting is an act of rulership. Since rulership is not given women, women should not vote.” This book is touted as “A Handbook For Godly Masculinity … Men were made to rule. They always have and always will. Nothing can change that. Nothing will.”

On his website in 2018, Tennant posted an article: “5 clear reasons Christians should oppose female heads of state.” The first reason stated that ” women exercising headship violates the creation design, for Adam was formed first, and then Eve.”

On his blog, Douglas Wilson, an evangelical theologian and pastor of Christ Church in Moscow, Idaho writes that, “however we try, the sexual act cannot be made into an egalitarian pleasuring party. A man penetrates, conquers, colonizes, plants. A woman receives, surrenders, accepts.” Men “conquering” and women “surrendering” summarizes much (if not all) of Christian Nationalism and gender roles.

In a quote-tweet, Joel Webbon noted “the 19th Amendment was a bad idea” because women are “easily deceived” and are attending “institutions for deception.” He has also said, 'Abortion will not end until feminism is utterly despised.'

Deckman reports that 69% of Christian Nationalists agree that “in a truly Christian family, the husband is the head of the household, and his wife submits to his leadership.” Only 36% of Americans overall agree with that sentiment.

Frederick Clarkson, of Political Research Advocates, notes that Christian Nationalism is grounded in “dominionism” the “theocratic idea that Christians are called by God to exercise dominion over every aspect of society by taking control of political and cultural institutions.” Clarkson writes that dominionism has long been “a driver of extremism in the United States.”

Dominionism is particularly dangerous given its adherents penchant for violence. Clarkson writes, “the goal of this new dominionism is to disrupt both more mainline versions of Christianity and U.S. democracy and, in its wake, take control of state and society and yoke everyone to their authoritarian vision of the world.”

Journalist Heath Durzin reports that Moscow Idaho fundamentalists want to make that city “an explicitly Christian locale governed by Biblical principles.” Christ Church Pastor Douglas Wilson stated: “All of Christ, for all of life…some might add for all of Moscow or for all of the world.” Durzin notes that almost all of the Christian Nationalists he spoke with “want to disenfranchise nearly all women.”

AliasGrace47 · 05/09/2025 18:35

TempestTost, could I ask about the abortion issue at state level...what about Vance's desire to investigate women who travel out of state for abortions? Seems worrying if he wants medical records to be investigated.. Vought and others saying they want abolition? Would you say this probs isn't an issue as it would be so unpopular? It seems worrisome that Vought apparently doesn't agree with abortion even in cases of rape or danger to mother's life.

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 05/09/2025 21:04

AliasGrace47 · 05/09/2025 18:00

I'm sorry about that. If I come across an interesting point I often think it's still worth addressing on the off chance the person wants to reply. But I understand it should not clog the boards, I promise not to do it again.

You say that, and then you immediately post three more posts.

BettyBooper · 05/09/2025 21:15

AliasGrace47 · 05/09/2025 18:00

I'm sorry about that. If I come across an interesting point I often think it's still worth addressing on the off chance the person wants to reply. But I understand it should not clog the boards, I promise not to do it again.

With respect, if I come across an old thread I skip immediately to the recent posts.

If it's a wall of posts by one poster, I assume it's a lecture rather than a discussion and move on by.

Again, no disrespect intended.

AliasGrace47 · 05/09/2025 21:28

BettyBooper · 05/09/2025 21:15

With respect, if I come across an old thread I skip immediately to the recent posts.

If it's a wall of posts by one poster, I assume it's a lecture rather than a discussion and move on by.

Again, no disrespect intended.

It wasn't a lecture, I was asking ppl questions.

DrBlackbird · 05/09/2025 22:11

AliasGrace47 · 05/09/2025 18:00

I'm sorry about that. If I come across an interesting point I often think it's still worth addressing on the off chance the person wants to reply. But I understand it should not clog the boards, I promise not to do it again.

Just a bit odd to revive so many old threads but understand that it doesn’t mean there aren’t still interesting aspects. Maybe pick up the point and start a new thread?

MadelineMardigan · 28/10/2025 03:48

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